Problems with my converted Saiga .223

[snorko]

First a description of the rifle:

This is a Saiga .223 that has been fully converted to an AK102 clone. All of the unnecessary Saiga holes were welded up, a riveted (not screwed) bullet guide has been installed, the trigger guard is riveted on and the rear of the receiver has been re-contoured to accept the real Russian AK100 series folding trunnion with the front latch assembly. The round count is around 850 (600 by orig. owner, 250 by me). Russian Saiga .223 base rifle. Russian AK100 Safety Lever (not the Saiga lever). Bulgarian gas tube. Bulgarian AK100 series front sight/gas block. 6 US Parts (922 compliant). Tapco G2 trigger group (3 parts). magpul MOE pistol grip (1 part). Arsenal US made handguards with heat shield (1 part). Arsenal US made muzzle device (1 part). Solid gun and I have complete faith in the INGOer who built it and from whom I acquired it.

I have taken this rifle to the range three times. First time I put maybe 40 rounds through it and all was good. Second time I had multiple FTFeed issues with loaded rounds being dented/jammed. Figured that might have been a mag issue. This past weekend I gave it a go and there are a variety of issues. The jamming/FTF thing came up again but more serious issues arose.

The main problem is as follows. Most common performance was insert a mag, chamber a round and it would fire. However, +/- 50% of the time the bolt was coming back enough to eject the shell and cock the hammer but no new round was loaded from the mag. +/-25% of the time it loaded a new round but the hammer followed the bolt leaving me with a loaded but UNcocked rifle. And yes, one time I am fairly certain it doubled on me.

I tried holding the trigger fully back during each shot then letting it reset. At first that seemed to help but then no. Strangely, the one thing that seemed to give reliable performance was to load in a mag, grip the gun firmly with both hands, bracing the butt stock under my arm and dumping the mag as fast as I could. I did this 2 or 3 times and each time it functioned as it should.

With less than 1,000 rounds it should not be a deterioration of the gas tube or block issue and certainly the trigger, disconnector, etc. should not be too worn. If you strip it open and function the hammer and trigger manually, everything seems to be working.

ETA: ammo was a mixture of Wolf Gold 55 gr, remanufactures 55 gr, Federal M193 and I think some steel combloc stuff originally.

Pic of underside of bolt carrier, wear seems excessive


Pic of bullet guide



Overview of hammer

 

[warriorbob]

sorry if it was mentioned and I missed it but what kind of magazines are you running? Also what kind of trigger group is in it? I know some people modify the g2s because the hammer geometry was off and from my understanding was causing deformation on the back of the bolt carrier.

 

[snorko]

Trigger group is a Tapco G2 single hook. Mags are Tapco Galil mags which is what the original builder built the rifle to use.

 

[warriorbob]

Does rhe hammer look like its been rounded or modified? The reason I ask is because if too much was taken off that might explain why your hammer rides tge bolt home.

 

[snorko]

I will give it a look and see. I happen to have a NIP Tapco G2 single hook trigger sitting around waiting for some other parts to complete a project. If there does appear to have been some modification, I might just switch them out to see.

 

[duffman0286]

How's she hand cycle...any drag of the bolt carrier as it travels over the hammer?......just did a saiga ak102 build myself. Personally I suspect the bullet guide but....the mag latch, hammer, or the bolt hold open can all cause the issue.

Now that reread your post I really would look over the bullet guide. I really wonder how he got a rivet in that bullet guide there's not much clearance for a bucking bar...make sure it looks nice and level and is centered

 

[snorko]

Does rhe hammer look like its been rounded or modified? The reason I ask is because if too much was taken off that might explain why your hammer rides tge bolt home.

Opened it up and the hammer has been heavily polished and rounded. The face is a smooth curve not angled like the NIP onevI compared it to. So definitely going to be changing that out. Might also look at the main spring, this one seems a little uneven on one side.

 

[warriorbob]

Pictures might help as well. I too have a saiga 223 project im trying to get fihured out. Granted mine just needs converted.

 

[duffman0286]

Look no further than a alg trigger... they addressed just about every issue we ak's ran into on tapco's

 

[tradertator]

Look no further than a alg trigger... they addressed just about every issue we ak's ran into on tapco's

Good advice, the ALG is really hard to beat. I also tend to agree that it sounds like a possible issue with the bullet guide.

 

[snorko]

Well I ordered another Tapco G2 a couple days ago and an upgraded main spring to boot. If the tapco doesn't work I'll try the ALG. Are they drop in or do they need fitting?

 

[warriorbob]

The alg is the best 50 bucks you can spend on an ak. Mine dropped right in.

 

[duffman0286]

Good advice, the ALG is really hard to beat. I also tend to agree that it sounds like a possible issue with the bullet guide.

i just did a .223 saiga conversion (riveted, welded holes, 5.5mm russian sidefolder, the works). I drilled and tapped mine like most do then gave it a tap with a welder to give the appearance of ground down rivet...

I even screwed up drilling my bullet guide the first time around the drill bit walked.. it was slightly tilted and that alone caused problems loading just by hand cycling... so i know if there not right your gonna have problems (im set up for bulgarian circle ten mags)

Well I ordered another Tapco G2 a couple days ago and an upgraded main spring to boot. If the tapco doesn't work I'll try the ALG. Are they drop in or do they need fitting?

Hey there still proven triggers i built many ak's with them with great results... however they sometimes can be temperamental or require some polishing to help that bolt slip over that hammer with enough energy to strip the next round.... and that may or may not be the issue your facing here but there a few other things id look into:

1) check the gas block...you said its a AK102 conversion which means it was switched out make sure the gas port isnt obstructed (there is a fairly good possibility your undergased)

2) your Bolt hold open device (i had
some much trouble with mine after the conversion so much that i ended up welded the hole up) it was binding against my ALG trigger


3) your hammer.... if your carrier tends to drag or hang up around the trigger group you may need to round the edges or polish that area of the Hammer.... look up ak sticky bolt fix

4) your piston... if any barrel component is out of alignment it can cause your piston to bind so make sure your fsb/gs combo, gas tube, and rear sight are in alignment

5) (while not your issue) but its good if your running G2's check your safety and make sure its notched so it doesnt force the weapon to fire if it somehow makes it past the dustcover


I really think your double fire was probly a "bump fire" these triggers are so touchy and light they can bump on you when your taking those extra slow trigger pulls.... (but its something i would look into and investigate further)

 

[warriorbob]

I'm curious, how do you "set it up" to run certain magazines? Are there different bullet guides?

 

[duffman0286]

I'm curious, how do you "set it up" to run certain magazines? Are there different bullet guides?

many diffrent ways to mod the rifle or the mag for just about any ak magazine..... i fitted my smoked bulgarian mags to the rifle takes less than 5min per mag and doesnt change the rifle at all..... so galil and those east german wieger will still work fine

The other route is to thin down rare ears of the front trunnion untill its just wide enough for the mag.... be warned while many have done this with no issues it does thin the lock tabs of the trunnion and if you take to much you can have a catastrophic failure (but with that said most of the these failures are result of people trying to fit the ar15 mag adapters which require much more material to be removed for proper fitment. but i will note that the modded mags as a noted earlier still work fine with any other 5.56/.223 ak without any issues. So thats the route i took 5.56 has far greater pressure than the 5.45x39 ak74 variants..if it had been a 74 i would have trimmed the front trunion without a second thought (if that is even a issue)

 

[duffman0286]

 

[warriorbob]

That is one beautiful rifle! I cant wait to get mine finished.

 

[duffman0286]

Quite the fun project and the side folder mods were actually fairly easy (intimating yes) but all the rear trunnion holes are used so its no big deal.... But snorko when you get a chance post a pic or two of your bullet guide thats something i rule out.... but between us saiga owners we will get your 102 tip top

 

[snorko]

Close up photos of the hammer, bullet guide and what looks to me to be excessive wear of the bolt carrier are in my album. I'll post them here when I am on a real computer.

 

[duffman0286]

Its kinda hard to see the bullet guide but its doesnt look bad.... i see the hammer has been ground down to correct the"sticky bolt issue" but if you can release the bolt from the rear postion and if it can strip a round that shouldn't be causing you problem either...... it very well could be your magazine or its orientation in the weapon....if the rear of mag sits to low it will have trouble stripping and sometimes the bolt carrier can skip over the mag (normally that tang on the back of the magazine rest against the bottom of the receiver if their is too much of a gap youll have issues) it will often dent the casing as well....

Another common issue is the front lip of the mag (what you rock mag off of when your inserting it) there is a small little pocket on the back of the front trunnion which is under the bullet guide.... it has to fit securely in this pocket (i had to thin somewhat for my bulgarian mags,)... the issues if it doesnt fully engage in that pocket it causes your mag to be lower in the front and that can cause your bullets to nosedive and jam..... should be easy to see visually check... your bullet guide should be between the first second rounds if its about level with the tip that

(keep in mind your running modded galil mags they may have not been set up correctly)


and while we are at it run a piece of wire down your gasport to clear out any carbon build up that might be in there rarely a issue but if that gasblock isnt perfectly lined up that can fowl up in less than 100rds its happened to me before and undergasing is one of the hardest things to diagnose ( the issues are quite similar as well)