Conservatives Have Failed Donald Trump's Supporters

[Twangbanger]

It's getting to the point where this has been well-enough explained, there's really no excuse for any intelligent person to fail to understand why people are supporting Donald Trump:

Conservatives have failed Donald Trump's supporters

"...It is true that I manifestly do not have the answers yet, nor do I believe Donald Trump has them. My aim in trying to understand and explain Trumpism and generate sympathy for the people who find themselves supporting Donald Trump is not to ratify dependency or a sense of victimhood in working-class people; it's to slap conservatives out of a torpor, to tell them that they are not victims of this Trump-led populist revolt, but the authors of it."


But my guess is, Conservatives don't have ears for this message.

I really hope it's not going to take a 6-3 Liberal majority on the Supreme Court to drive this home. But if Conservatives don't figure this out, and start tuning public policies accordingly, that's where I believe we're headed.

 

[BugI02]

Not a fan of MSN in general, but:

"Instead, the GOP's Powers That Be make a great show of obedience and deference to the center-right donor class, even when that donor class' preferred policies — endless war, unlimited immigration, and slashing tax burdens on the wealthy — have almost no relation to conservative ideas or even popular opinion."

For Mr. Michael B. Dougherty, who I believe gets it, I will allow it

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Ill be waiting to hear how the libertarian views on open borders and free trade would kept those with connections, political pull, business savvy, etc from doing exactly what were blaming on the conservatives.

 

[pudly]

Wow. MSN's definition of conservatives makes as much sense as Donald Trump's.

Get a job, you racists, and stop playing the victim! Don't you remember the '80s?

 

[Principal Skinr]

I'm not seeing what I, as a conservative, owe Mr. Trump's supporters. I've seen little evidence he's conservative. He has barely articulated any specifics on policy he'd put in place, beyond a wall. I don't support him. Why is that hard to understand? We're not in the general election yet, so right now the contest is among candidates who have a much more clearly conservative track record, and who have records on which to be judged.

Talk to me if he wins the nomination. Until then, I trust him less than several other candidates. Stack him up against Hillary or Bernie, and I'll probably take my chances with him, but I'll be very nervous about it, and nervous for our country.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

It's easier than all that, and I don't think the author gets to the root of it. He sees the surface of it, but he's still conflating republican with conservative. For quite some time now, conservative voters have had nobody they can vote for. They're all insiders and elitists, and both "sides" are merely more or less communist. Some of the voters are slow realizing this intellectually, but it causes a great deal of visceral frustration. Trump comes along making the noises that perk the conservatives' ears, and they feel the enthusiasm.

 

[BugI02]

I'm not seeing what I, as a conservative, owe Mr. Trump's supporters. I've seen little evidence he's conservative. He has barely articulated any specifics on policy he'd put in place, beyond a wall. I don't support him. Why is that hard to understand? We're not in the general election yet, so right now the contest is among candidates who have a much more clearly conservative track record, and who have records on which to be judged.

Talk to me if he wins the nomination. Until then, I trust him less than several other candidates. Stack him up against Hillary or Bernie, and I'll probably take my chances with him, but I'll be very nervous about it, and nervous for our country.

A week from Tuesday, then. Talk to ya' then

 

[WestSider]

I'm not seeing what I, as a conservative, owe Mr. Trump's supporters. I've seen little evidence he's conservative. He has barely articulated any specifics on policy he'd put in place, beyond a wall. I don't support him. Why is that hard to understand? We're not in the general election yet, so right now the contest is among candidates who have a much more clearly conservative track record, and who have records on which to be judged.

Talk to me if he wins the nomination. Until then, I trust him less than several other candidates. Stack him up against Hillary or Bernie, and I'll probably take my chances with him, but I'll be very nervous about it, and nervous for our country.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Tombs]

I'm not seeing what I, as a conservative, owe Mr. Trump's supporters. I've seen little evidence he's conservative. He has barely articulated any specifics on policy he'd put in place, beyond a wall. I don't support him. Why is that hard to understand? We're not in the general election yet, so right now the contest is among candidates who have a much more clearly conservative track record, and who have records on which to be judged.

Talk to me if he wins the nomination. Until then, I trust him less than several other candidates. Stack him up against Hillary or Bernie, and I'll probably take my chances with him, but I'll be very nervous about it, and nervous for our country.

Just because you ignore and avoid the specifics of Trump's policies doesn't mean they aren't sitting right in front of you. Go to his website, it's clearly spelled out in black and white.
Rubio nor Cruz have given specifics any more detailed than he has in any of the debates. In fact, they usually deflect and avoid answering the questions, while he's willing to say something that may be offensive or potentially harmful to himself.

As for saying he's not a conservative... Keep hammering those buzzy headline phrases with no merit. Last time I checked, keeping healthcare private, overturning roe vs wade, building up the military, and securing our borders are very conservative things.

If you're going to say "No they aren't because lie," then I could say the same of any other candidate in the running. It's not an argument, it's just admitting you have no rational arguments left.

 

[BugI02]

....
But my guess is, Conservatives don't have ears for this message.

I really hope it's not going to take a 6-3 Liberal majority on the Supreme Court to drive this home. But if Conservatives don't figure this out, and start tuning public policies accordingly, that's where I believe we're headed.

Respectfully,TB, this won't remedy the problem. If the rest of the field tries to triangulate and tweak their positions for a more populist appeal they will just appear more phony then they already do. That train has left the station.

Will conservatives really go down the same 'purity' rathole that ensnares the Libertarians (you could update the fallacy by renaming it 'No True Libertarian' and people would instinctively understand). I just don't see people who want something different in a candidate/president than the same old same old being put off by the argument that Trump is not a conservative or not conservative enough. They are selecting someone who they hope will pay attention to and ameliorate their problems, the conditions they live with day to day. I don't think Cruz or Rubio have much credibility as champions for the little guy. For better or worse Trump has tapped into the hopes and fears of a sizeable portion of the electorate, most of them people who would be considered good little conservatives/republicans if they were only voting for one of the choices they're supposed to be voting for. Since they're not, of course now they are heretics or themselves not pure enough, not conservative enough.

I don't live their reality, but I work alongside people caught in the limbo they hope Trump can get them out of. It's not hard to empathize with their struggles. I'm not sure Trump can return manufacturing to our shores, or if he tries through tariff's that he won't ignite a trade war that will drag the whole world down into recession. But at least he's willing to try. NAFTA has been a disaster for Trump's supporters and they can't see how TPP and near unrestricted immigration is likely to make their lives any better. Corporate tax rates are not high on their list of concerns. They may be selfish and focused on the small picture but they are people, they suffer and they vote. In their estimation even if Trump turns out to be a total huckster, they will scarcely be worse off than if they had supported Rubio or Cruz. Conservatives have grabbed a tiger by the tail and its going to be quite the ride.

 

[Twangbanger]

I'm not seeing what I, as a conservative, owe Mr. Trump's supporters. I've seen little evidence he's conservative. He has barely articulated any specifics on policy he'd put in place, beyond a wall. I don't support him. Why is that hard to understand? We're not in the general election yet, so right now the contest is among candidates who have a much more clearly conservative track record, and who have records on which to be judged.

Talk to me if he wins the nomination. Until then, I trust him less than several other candidates. Stack him up against Hillary or Bernie, and I'll probably take my chances with him, but I'll be very nervous about it, and nervous for our country.

It's not a pro-Trump article, it's not about you, and it doesn't say Trump is conservative. It is an explanation of why certain people supporting him feel conservatism holds no benefit for them, because it's been taken over by economic interests which savage blue collar workers with unforgiving economic libertarianism on certain issues, while simultaneously upholding naked socialism for Wall Street.

It seems that true Economic Libertarianism in this country only gets 100% consistently and successfully applied to blue collar jobs - everybody else gets exceptions. People are right to be mad about that. Certain people are tired of being told by "Conservatism," the Cato Institute, Wall Street Journal Editorial Board, Heritage Foundation, etc., etc., etc. that policies that benefit them cannot be tried "because protectionism."

Some will say, "Well, I was never in favor of Corporate Socialism, that's not my fault, me and other Conservatives stood against that all along." But the point is: you/we did not succeed. Only the policies brutalizing blue collar workers get implemented. And the one-sided nature of that has to stop, if we're to have any hope of making Conservatism appeal to these people, getting Republicans in the White House again, and getting Supreme Court justices who don't look like they just walked out of a Star Wars Bar Scene.

 

[Hiker1911]

Trump is a (LTC) card carrying guy, and supports those of us involved in SD-handgun efforts, and shooting sports.
Just out of curiousity, how many of the other Republican field have a current LTC?

The difference with the current Democratic candidates running for President is...they would, IMO, withhold the fact that they have a LTC from their supporters, if they in fact-have a LTC.

 

[Principal Skinr]

Just because you ignore and avoid the specifics of Trump's policies doesn't mean they aren't sitting right in front of you. Go to his website, it's clearly spelled out in black and white.
Rubio nor Cruz have given specifics any more detailed than he has in any of the debates. In fact, they usually deflect and avoid answering the questions, while he's willing to say something that may be offensive or potentially harmful to himself.

As for saying he's not a conservative... Keep hammering those buzzy headline phrases with no merit. Last time I checked, keeping healthcare private, overturning roe vs wade, building up the military, and securing our borders are very conservative things.

If you're going to say "No they aren't because lie," then I could say the same of any other candidate in the running. It's not an argument, it's just admitting you have no rational arguments left.

Wow, man, you read a whole lot into what I wrote. It is impressive that I was even quoted on something I never said.

Last I checked, Trump said he voted for Obama in '08. Doesn't sound like a guy that wanted to keep healthcare private. He's been well known to support abortion in the past, even partial birth. I'm also not sure our military needs built up. We're 19 trillion dollars in debt, and counting. I want cuts, not build-ups. I want to see our military run in a much more efficient manner, with no more $$ than they get right now. In fact, I'd like to see a budget freeze across the board. I'll give him the border issue. He's been pretty specific and consistent on that issue. I'm not a one issue voter, though. He's got to spell it out and get off this ridiculous business of questioning the others' citizenship. He does that but then accuses the others of skirting the issues.

I hear all this "outsider" bs, but he's been playing politics a long time, and he flops on issues with the best of the "establishment" candidates. He's also given LOTS of money to some of the most liberal politicians, anywhere. I doubt they've done that.

I'm not sold. Sorry if that upsets anyone.

 

[FWJK]

Just because you ignore and avoid the specifics of Trump's policies doesn't mean they aren't sitting right in front of you. Go to his website, it's clearly spelled out in black and white.
Rubio nor Cruz have given specifics any more detailed than he has in any of the debates. In fact, they usually deflect and avoid answering the questions, while he's willing to say something that may be offensive or potentially harmful to himself.

As for saying he's not a conservative... Keep hammering those buzzy headline phrases with no merit. Last time I checked, keeping healthcare private, overturning roe vs wade, building up the military, and securing our borders are very conservative things.

If you're going to say "No they aren't because lie," then I could say the same of any other candidate in the running. It's not an argument, it's just admitting you have no rational arguments left.

Trump stated just in this last week that while he would get rid of obamacare, he believes in the mandate. This in itself is not conservatism. Government mandates are THE issue with obamacare.

Since we are already 18 trillion in debt, how is he going to pay for the military build up?

How is he going to pay for the securing of our borders? Oh, forgot, he's going to make Mexico pay for it. That's rational.

 

[Tombs]

Wow, man, you read a whole lot into what I wrote. It is impressive that I was even quoted on something I never said.

Last I checked, Trump said he voted for Obama in '08. Doesn't sound like a guy that wanted to keep healthcare private. He's been well known to support abortion in the past, even partial birth. I'm also not sure our military needs built up. We're 19 trillion dollars in debt, and counting. I want cuts, not build-ups. I want to see our military run in a much more efficient manner, with no more $$ than they get right now. In fact, I'd like to see a budget freeze across the board. I'll give him the border issue. He's been pretty specific and consistent on that issue. I'm not a one issue voter, though. He's got to spell it out and get off this ridiculous business of questioning the others' citizenship. He does that but then accuses the others of skirting the issues.

I hear all this "outsider" bs, but he's been playing politics a long time, and he flops on issues with the best of the "establishment" candidates. He's also given LOTS of money to some of the most liberal politicians, anywhere. I doubt they've done that.

I'm not sold. Sorry if that upsets anyone.

In 2008 obama was a vastly different animal than in 2012 or now. In fact, his first term wasn't even as bad as clinton. Remember that AWB that never happened under obama? (McCain is one of very few republicans I honestly believe would have been worse than obama)

Trump has repeatedly said part of his healthcare plan is to remove restrictions that prevent health insurance being sold across state lines. So is that socialist healthcare?

His past support of stupid things seems like nothing more than political pandering with little to no interest in the topic. I wager that's why he's so hardcore on his stances currently, he was stuck speaking in support of all this ridiculous nonsense to keep business partners for years and now he can finally say what he wants. If you'd been working in the line of business he has, in New York of all places, I bet you'd be stuck saying some pretty stupid stuff to hold onto business partnerships too. If he'd been in elected office and voted or signed off on bills to effectually change the law for these progressive things, then yeah, I would be right with you 100%.

Trump stated just in this last week that while he would get rid of obamacare, he believes in the mandate. This in itself is not conservatism. Government mandates are THE issue with obamacare.

Since we are already 18 trillion in debt, how is he going to pay for the military build up?

How is he going to pay for the securing of our borders? Oh, forgot, he's going to make Mexico pay for it. That's rational.

So how does he finance all of this you ask? Bringing manufacturing back to the US.

That's why we're in the mess we're in, in the first place.

I'd also like to say that I believe the reason so many conservatives hate and bash Trump is because they haven't had a strong candidate in decades now and they're fighting in absolute disbelief that someone could actually come along and win who is a conservative. Every time I see someone throw something negative at him, it's because they don't believe him. Time to come out of the darkness people, you have a real candidate for once who can easily make it into the white house. It's not too good to be true.

 

[jwh20]

I challenge the premise that it's CONSERVATIVES who have failed. It's ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS and they are NOT conservatives. They talk differently than the liberal-leftists but they DO the same stuff.

Had the Republicans in Congress been doing what they should have been doing since 2012 when an already fed-up majority put them into the majority of both Houses of Congress then Trump would be a non-issue. Instead they have just rolled on every scheme that Obama has wanted.

The RNC has nobody to blame for Donald Trump than themselves!

On the bright side I see that establishment Republican and RINO Jeb Bush has dropped out. He was the GOP "darling" just a year ago and he spent more money than all the others by a bunch.

 

[BugI02]

Wow, man, you read a whole lot into what I wrote. It is impressive that I was even quoted on something I never said.

Last I checked, Trump said he voted for Obama in '08. Doesn't sound like a guy that wanted to keep healthcare private. He's been well known to support abortion in the past, even partial birth. I'm also not sure our military needs built up. We're 19 trillion dollars in debt, and counting. I want cuts, not build-ups. I want to see our military run in a much more efficient manner, with no more $$ than they get right now. In fact, I'd like to see a budget freeze across the board. I'll give him the border issue. He's been pretty specific and consistent on that issue. I'm not a one issue voter, though. He's got to spell it out and get off this ridiculous business of questioning the others' citizenship. He does that but then accuses the others of skirting the issues.

I hear all this "outsider" bs, but he's been playing politics a long time, and he flops on issues with the best of the "establishment" candidates. He's also given LOTS of money to some of the most liberal politicians, anywhere. I doubt they've done that.

I'm not sold. Sorry if that upsets anyone.

Just to speak to one particular point, I've seen numbers on Trump's contributions to politicians. From 1999 to 2009 it was 52% R and 48% D, which is what businessmen do. The fact that he's from NY means that in seeking influence in his home state he has had to give to some pretty awful pieces of ****, but that's because that state keeps electing some pretty awful pieces of ****.

Since 2009 his giving has overwhelmingly favored R's, IIRC something like 94% R to 6% D

 

[BugI02]

I challenge the premise that it's CONSERVATIVES who have failed. It's ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS and they are NOT conservatives.
[Because NO TRUE CONSERVATIVE would do that 'stuff'. Called it]
They talk differently than the liberal-leftists but they DO the same stuff.

Had the Republicans in Congress been doing what they should have been doing since 2012 when an already fed-up majority put them into the majority of both Houses of Congress then Trump would be a non-issue. Instead they have just rolled on every scheme that Obama has wanted.

The RNC has nobody to blame for Donald Trump than themselves!

On the bright side I see that establishment Republican and RINO Jeb Bush has dropped out. He was the GOP "darling" just a year ago and he spent more money than all the others by a bunch.

.

 

[indyjs]

Trump and Obama have the same campaign theme
Hope and Change
Let's make America Great Again
People are desperate. And hope sells

 

[Principal Skinr]

Just to speak to one particular point, I've seen numbers on Trump's contributions to politicians. From 1999 to 2009 it was 52% R and 48% D, which is what businessmen do. The fact that he's from NY means that in seeking influence in his home state he has had to give to some pretty awful pieces of ****, but that's because that state keeps electing some pretty awful pieces of ****.

Since 2009 his giving has overwhelmingly favored R's, IIRC something like 94% R to 6% D

Sorry, I don't look at "what businessmen do" as always right. Also, he has said he voted for Obama in 2008. Does that not bother anyone?? How can it not? He's gotten a lot bigger pass than Romney did for a lot bigger flip flops. Romney never voted for Obama, either, I can assure you, and he was vilified around here. If it is that easy for someone to just buy and talk their way into this much conservative support, than many conservatives are flat-out gullible.

I can tell you I have NEVER given 1 dime to a Democrat. I'll bet Cruz, Rubio, Kaisich, or any of the others never did, either.

I'm not sure what Trump was smoking, but Obama has tried to give us nothing that he didn't promise back in 2008. It isn't like he let everyone down who supported him. So I can't trust someone that voted for him to lead our party or our nation. Again, the only way I'll vote for him is if the alternative is Bernie or Hillary.

Also, so soon we all forget who he said convinced him to run. Slick Willy himself. I've got questions about that, too.

One more thing...he's been simmering about making an independent run. That would GUARANTEE Democratic victory.

This dude is a loose cannon who is riding a wave of understandable anger. Unfortunately, many have been blinded by that anger and it seems like it has been used to seduce them.

That's all just my humble opinion, so I hope no one lets it light a fuse in their underwear. We'll see where my vote goes come May.