First, I’ll say the officer was very pleasant and professional. I owe him many thanks because he wrote a warning instead of a VERY expensive ticket.
I was making my first trip up US31 since it recently reopened in Carmel. I was tooling along not really paying attention. I finally noticed ahead that I was doing well above the posted sign ahead, so I started coasting. Before I could get to that sign a Westfield PD SUV lit me up from behind.
The officer sat for a few and then finally approached. I had my window down and hands at 10 and 2. He politely informed me that I was in a construction zone and the fines started at $400. I apologized and was honest… I was paying more attention to the posted limit on my GPS and wasn’t really noticing the signs until the one that was still about 100yds ahead, and that he probably noticed me slowing down before he lit me up. He said the two of us had passed two since he got behind me, and he understood and “we would see how it all worked out.”
He asked for my license, registration, and proof of insurance (which I think is the first request for insurance card except during an accident report). I handed him my license and Larry, and let him know that my holstered pistol was on top of the registration. (Its usually on my hip but wasn’t practical today as I had no good place to remove before going into my field office) He didn’t seem bothered by it, and I gently removed it and placed it on the passenger’s seat facing away. We shared a couple chuckles as I went through 5 insurance cards between the glove box and my wallet, and none were current. He chastised me for not being able to prove I had insurance and said he would look into it.
As an aside, I have carried my registration on my visor before as discussed in one of the other “disarmed” or “Inform” threads. That’s the one and only place I have ever carried it and lost it. Due to how I operate the glove box is the only place that works for me for both my handgun (which doesn’t always live there) and my registration, so skip the “you shouldn’t keep it there” response.
Moving on…He mentioned moving the gun and I misunderstood due to stress so I put it away. He corrected me and said “No, I said keep the barrel pointed away from me and HAND it to me.” As I removed it from the glove box I politely said “I will comply but I don’t consent to my property being confiscated.” He took it from me and said “It is not being confiscated it is being detained… for officer safety. “ (I was too nervous to remember to ask him to articulate RAS, which was probably a good thing… see below) He asked if all of my addresses on the forms were current. I confirmed that they were, and he pointed out that if the address on my pink slip was wrong it was no longer valid. (I didn’t protest that misinformation since it’s the database info, not the paper that matters) He walked back to the truck.
So I sat… and I sat… and I sat. At least 15 minutes later, he comes back. He has my stuff and a paper in his hand. He apologized profusely and said he was having trouble verifying my permit’s validity. Dispatch had contacted the ISP but they aren’t responding to the request for some reason. He tried again on the radio at my car, and said to them if they didn’t hear back within 5 he was going to just cut me loose.” I told him I was in no hurry, and to take his time. I had no schedule to keep. He seemed to truly appreciate that as he said “most people would be giving me a hard time wanting me to hurry up.”
He gave me a written warning, and* he reminded me that it was 40 from 465 to SR238, and it was “the longest 7 miles I will drive that day” with a chuckle. I asked “doesn’t my permit come up when you run my license? As I recall it does.” The response I got back was one I had never heard before. (Paraphrased) “You have 3 permits in the system that I can see. Two 4 years and now your lifetime. It’s a separate database run by a specific division of the ISP not the DMV. Sometimes they don’t update that database we use when a permit is revoked, so just because you have this pink paper doesn’t mean you are still legal. So we have to contact the ISP specifically to make sure it is still indeed valid. SO if this isn’t valid you would go to jail today because its illegal for you to be carrying this. For some reason they aren’t responding to us today. I used to work some bad neighborhoods down in IMPD, and Ive taken pinks off of felons who should never have had them. So I cant be too careful. I could be walking back to my truck and you could shoot me in the back because I havent figured out yet that you are wanted for something. I know of officers that will unload the gun and run a cable…er zip tie through the gun before they give it back so that it cant be used immediately. But I don’t think that is necessary. I understand you politely protested because you don’t like to be under control, and I appreciate that. Thank you for being understanding. You know what, its been long enough. (hands me my license and Larry then takes out his iphone) What I am doing now is I’m photographing the serial number of your gun. (without removing it from the holster) That way if they come back later and say your permit isn’t valid I can prove you had it with you today and we know to come to your house for it.“ * He then handed it back exactly as I gave it to him (ready to roll) and I put it away. I thanked him for his leniency and his service, and told him to be safe. We shook hands and I went on my way.
Here is my takeaway
-Overall I am appreciative of his professionalism and understanding. What struck me as odd was during the entire encounter he projected an urgency to find ANYTHING he could to charge me with.
-He pointed out the ticket he could write could end up over $1000.
-He pointed out (erroneously) that if the address on my LTCH was wrong it was invalid and I was going to jail.
-He seemed eager to nail me for driving without insurance. (I offered for him to call my agent to confirm… her number is on the expired card I had… when I talked to my agent to get replacements, he had not called.)
-He was holding the pistol in his left hand, pretty much flagging me the entire 2-3 minutes between the two asterisks above. I wasn’t thrilled with that, but I kept my bacon hole shut because I couldn’t afford to **** him off. Literally. I didn’t need that warning to get ripped up and replaced.
- The only things he missed was “Why were you all over the road”, “I think I smell weed”, and “is there anything in the vehicle I need to know about… Mind if I take a look?” But then again he was acting pretty professionally, which is why he didnt.
I think my honesty and limited protesting is what saved my bacon today. Had I “stood up for my rights” like a good patriot by cracking the window, sassing him about how he needed RAS in order to take my gun, etc. I would now be $400+ lighter in the wallet. I guess playing their games is what kept me out of trouble as previously mentioned by several LEOs here. "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes".
Wondering if I might want to send a polite letter outlining his misunderstandings regarding the paper Larry address, as well as RAS being necessary for confiscating my weapon? While professional, he does seem to be lacking in a few areas of his profession.
And any LEOs make sense of what he was talking about regarding contacting the ISP because his database may be inaccurate? First I heard about that.
I was making my first trip up US31 since it recently reopened in Carmel. I was tooling along not really paying attention. I finally noticed ahead that I was doing well above the posted sign ahead, so I started coasting. Before I could get to that sign a Westfield PD SUV lit me up from behind.
The officer sat for a few and then finally approached. I had my window down and hands at 10 and 2. He politely informed me that I was in a construction zone and the fines started at $400. I apologized and was honest… I was paying more attention to the posted limit on my GPS and wasn’t really noticing the signs until the one that was still about 100yds ahead, and that he probably noticed me slowing down before he lit me up. He said the two of us had passed two since he got behind me, and he understood and “we would see how it all worked out.”
He asked for my license, registration, and proof of insurance (which I think is the first request for insurance card except during an accident report). I handed him my license and Larry, and let him know that my holstered pistol was on top of the registration. (Its usually on my hip but wasn’t practical today as I had no good place to remove before going into my field office) He didn’t seem bothered by it, and I gently removed it and placed it on the passenger’s seat facing away. We shared a couple chuckles as I went through 5 insurance cards between the glove box and my wallet, and none were current. He chastised me for not being able to prove I had insurance and said he would look into it.
As an aside, I have carried my registration on my visor before as discussed in one of the other “disarmed” or “Inform” threads. That’s the one and only place I have ever carried it and lost it. Due to how I operate the glove box is the only place that works for me for both my handgun (which doesn’t always live there) and my registration, so skip the “you shouldn’t keep it there” response.
Moving on…He mentioned moving the gun and I misunderstood due to stress so I put it away. He corrected me and said “No, I said keep the barrel pointed away from me and HAND it to me.” As I removed it from the glove box I politely said “I will comply but I don’t consent to my property being confiscated.” He took it from me and said “It is not being confiscated it is being detained… for officer safety. “ (I was too nervous to remember to ask him to articulate RAS, which was probably a good thing… see below) He asked if all of my addresses on the forms were current. I confirmed that they were, and he pointed out that if the address on my pink slip was wrong it was no longer valid. (I didn’t protest that misinformation since it’s the database info, not the paper that matters) He walked back to the truck.
So I sat… and I sat… and I sat. At least 15 minutes later, he comes back. He has my stuff and a paper in his hand. He apologized profusely and said he was having trouble verifying my permit’s validity. Dispatch had contacted the ISP but they aren’t responding to the request for some reason. He tried again on the radio at my car, and said to them if they didn’t hear back within 5 he was going to just cut me loose.” I told him I was in no hurry, and to take his time. I had no schedule to keep. He seemed to truly appreciate that as he said “most people would be giving me a hard time wanting me to hurry up.”
He gave me a written warning, and* he reminded me that it was 40 from 465 to SR238, and it was “the longest 7 miles I will drive that day” with a chuckle. I asked “doesn’t my permit come up when you run my license? As I recall it does.” The response I got back was one I had never heard before. (Paraphrased) “You have 3 permits in the system that I can see. Two 4 years and now your lifetime. It’s a separate database run by a specific division of the ISP not the DMV. Sometimes they don’t update that database we use when a permit is revoked, so just because you have this pink paper doesn’t mean you are still legal. So we have to contact the ISP specifically to make sure it is still indeed valid. SO if this isn’t valid you would go to jail today because its illegal for you to be carrying this. For some reason they aren’t responding to us today. I used to work some bad neighborhoods down in IMPD, and Ive taken pinks off of felons who should never have had them. So I cant be too careful. I could be walking back to my truck and you could shoot me in the back because I havent figured out yet that you are wanted for something. I know of officers that will unload the gun and run a cable…er zip tie through the gun before they give it back so that it cant be used immediately. But I don’t think that is necessary. I understand you politely protested because you don’t like to be under control, and I appreciate that. Thank you for being understanding. You know what, its been long enough. (hands me my license and Larry then takes out his iphone) What I am doing now is I’m photographing the serial number of your gun. (without removing it from the holster) That way if they come back later and say your permit isn’t valid I can prove you had it with you today and we know to come to your house for it.“ * He then handed it back exactly as I gave it to him (ready to roll) and I put it away. I thanked him for his leniency and his service, and told him to be safe. We shook hands and I went on my way.
Here is my takeaway
-Overall I am appreciative of his professionalism and understanding. What struck me as odd was during the entire encounter he projected an urgency to find ANYTHING he could to charge me with.
-He pointed out the ticket he could write could end up over $1000.
-He pointed out (erroneously) that if the address on my LTCH was wrong it was invalid and I was going to jail.
-He seemed eager to nail me for driving without insurance. (I offered for him to call my agent to confirm… her number is on the expired card I had… when I talked to my agent to get replacements, he had not called.)
-He was holding the pistol in his left hand, pretty much flagging me the entire 2-3 minutes between the two asterisks above. I wasn’t thrilled with that, but I kept my bacon hole shut because I couldn’t afford to **** him off. Literally. I didn’t need that warning to get ripped up and replaced.
- The only things he missed was “Why were you all over the road”, “I think I smell weed”, and “is there anything in the vehicle I need to know about… Mind if I take a look?” But then again he was acting pretty professionally, which is why he didnt.
I think my honesty and limited protesting is what saved my bacon today. Had I “stood up for my rights” like a good patriot by cracking the window, sassing him about how he needed RAS in order to take my gun, etc. I would now be $400+ lighter in the wallet. I guess playing their games is what kept me out of trouble as previously mentioned by several LEOs here. "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes".
Wondering if I might want to send a polite letter outlining his misunderstandings regarding the paper Larry address, as well as RAS being necessary for confiscating my weapon? While professional, he does seem to be lacking in a few areas of his profession.
And any LEOs make sense of what he was talking about regarding contacting the ISP because his database may be inaccurate? First I heard about that.
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