USS Ward and the First Shots of Pearl Harbor

[Alamo]

In honor of the defense of Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941, I'm posting an excellent little historical video by The History Guy on YouTube. The History Guy presents short (usually less than 15 minutes) videos on various historical events that may have slipped out of the mainstream of historical consciousness. His motto is "History that Deserves to be Remembered", and he is quite good at this. I recommend watching any and all of his videos.

The one he posted today was about the first skirmish during the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. I never realized that the first shot fired American, and the first seacraft sunk was Japanese. Along the way you get a good overview on the origin of both torpedo boats and destroyers.

[video=youtube;hcVnByFS7n8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcVnByFS7n8[/video]

Remember Pearl Harbor.

 

[femurphy77]

I just finished watching a mini documentary on Prime on the war in the Pacific. They acknowledged the Ward having the first American "Kill" of WWII in the Pacific having successfully sunk the mini sub prior to the start of the attack on Pearl. Interesting to know that until a short time ago everybody basically denied that this action took place, they basically said that the Ward sunk a whale or some other such.

 

[actaeon277]

I just finished watching a mini documentary on Prime on the war in the Pacific. They acknowledged the Ward having the first American "Kill" of WWII in the Pacific having successfully sunk the mini sub prior to the start of the attack on Pearl. Interesting to know that until a short time ago everybody basically denied that this action took place, they basically said that the Ward sunk a whale or some other such.

How "short" ago?
Cause I've known about it a long time.

Tora, Tora, Tora was made in 1970, and it was in that movie.

 

[actaeon277]

Also, when the Ward reported sinking a sub, An alarm wasn't sounded, because they wanted "confirmation" first.

Most places that I've been to, the alarm is sounded, and confirmation is sought next.
Probably a "lesson learned".

 

[halfmileharry]

How "short" ago?
Cause I've known about it a long time.

Tora, Tora, Tora was made in 1970, and it was in that movie.

Not confirmed until 2002 according to the OP's posting

 

[femurphy77]

How "short" ago?
Cause I've known about it a long time.

Tora, Tora, Tora was made in 1970, and it was in that movie.

Any depictions were based on reports of the day from the Ward. Everything I've read about it thru the years said that it was never considered fact until they found the sub about 10 or so years ago. Not "short", just used it relatively. Finding the sub provided irrefutable evidence of the Wards encounter and report.

I guess since they didn't get "confirmation" they just ignored it. Don't know, wasn't there.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Also, when the Ward reported sinking a sub, An alarm wasn't sounded, because they wanted "confirmation" first.

Most places that I've been to, the alarm is sounded, and confirmation is sought next.
Probably a "lesson learned".

Put a big hole in the conning tower and the sub ain't so tough.

 

[actaeon277]

Put a big hole in the conning tower and the sub ain't so tough.

Put a hole anywhere, cause they aren't tough.

That's ONE of the reasons they no longer have deck guns.
You shoot a ship/boat, and most of the hits are above the waterline.

But when a sub submerges, any hit is below the waterline.


That, and deck guns create underwater flow disturbances, which translates to noise, and decreased hull efficiency.

 

[actaeon277]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ward_(DD-139)
A minority of academics doubted whether Ward had really sunk a Japanese mini-sub until University of Hawaii scientists found the vessel on 28 August 2002. It lies 1,200 ft (366 m) beneath the sea in American waters about 3–4 mi (3–3 nmi; 5–6 km) outside Pearl Harbor.[SUP][5][/SUP] The starboard side of the submarine's conning tower exhibits one shell hole, evidence of damage from Ward's number-three gun. While her depth charges were sufficient to fully lift the 46-long-ton (47 t), 78 ft (24 m) submarine out of the water, they did no apparent structural damage to the submarine, which sank due to water flooding into the vessel from the two shell holes.[SUP][6][/SUP]



Well, "a minority of academics"...
I guess I could understand that. Submarines were often claimed sunk, that weren't. And subs often reported surface ships sunk, which weren't.





https://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/maritime/japanese-mini-subs/
And this shows 2 subs found in 1951 and 1960, and the sub sunk by the Ward in 2002.

 

[actaeon277]

Any depictions were based on reports of the day from the Ward. Everything I've read about it thru the years said that it was never considered fact until they found the sub about 10 or so years ago. Not "short", just used it relatively. Finding the sub provided irrefutable evidence of the Wards encounter and report.

I guess since they didn't get "confirmation" they just ignored it. Don't know, wasn't there.

By the time the Ward would have sent "confirmation", everyone was shooting up into the air and being bombed.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Put a hole anywhere, cause they aren't tough.

That's ONE of the reasons they no longer have deck guns.
You shoot a ship/boat, and most of the hits are above the waterline.

But when a sub submerges, any hit is below the waterline.


That, and deck guns create underwater flow disturbances, which translates to noise, and decreased hull efficiency.

Big difference between a surface boat that can submerge and "submerge on New Years Eve, surface on St Patrick's Day".

 

[actaeon277]

Considering how many people dropped the ball that day, it seems the Ward was ACTUALLY doing it's job.
Which aggravated the people that were still in "Peacetime" mode of operations.

 

[actaeon277]

Big difference between a surface boat that can submerge and "submerge on New Years Eve, surface on St Patrick's Day".

All boats/ships submerge.

Submarines just try to keep their surface/submerge ratio at ONE.



My sub had a 1,000 dive design on the hull.
We exceeded that 3 years before I left.
Newport News Shipbuilders did a good job. I didn't die.

 

[churchmouse]

I just finished watching a mini documentary on Prime on the war in the Pacific. They acknowledged the Ward having the first American "Kill" of WWII in the Pacific having successfully sunk the mini sub prior to the start of the attack on Pearl. Interesting to know that until a short time ago everybody basically denied that this action took place, they basically said that the Ward sunk a whale or some other such.

They actually found that sub. It had a serious hole in the front hatch tower.

 

[actaeon277]

 

[actaeon277]

https://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/news/press/japanese-mini-subs/

 

[Cameramonkey]

Yep. History guy is a great series. He knows his stuff and his writings are quite entertaining for as dry as some of the material is.

 

[femurphy77]

By the time the Ward would have sent "confirmation", everyone was shooting up into the air and being bombed.

One. Article I read in it talked about it being full of reservists so their was no way they knew what they were doing.

 

[Birds Away]

One. Article I read in it talked about it being full of reservists so their was no way they knew what they were doing.

Given the circumstances I probably would have been pretty skeptical about the report also. It's pretty common for lookouts to report a periscope sighting that turns out to be BS.

 

[Hawkeye]

Put a hole anywhere, cause they aren't tough.

That's ONE of the reasons they no longer have deck guns.
You shoot a ship/boat, and most of the hits are above the waterline.

But when a sub submerges, any hit is below the waterline.


That, and deck guns create underwater flow disturbances, which translates to noise, and decreased hull efficiency.

Well, until battery technology improve after WW2 and nukes, subs were really only submersibles and spent most of their time on the surface. In some cases submerged only for the attack run.

Torpedoes were (are) expensive and relatively few were carried. The guns were used for lone merchants that didn’t warrant a torpedo.

Did you know that some early (WW1) subs had deck guns in “disappearing” mounts that sort of folded into the deck? I think it was an early attempt at streamline?


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