Why not adjustable gas blocks and tuning tips on AR's

[nonobaddog]

The flyer was all me, I pulled the shot.....it happens....that target was my first mid range match with that newly built match rifle .....and I did it thru the irons View attachment 231206

Excellent shooting!
My AR-15 rifles won't do that.

I try irons once in a while on some rimfire BSA International and Winchester 52 rifles but my old eyes just laugh at me and tell me to use a scope.

 

[SPOOK331945]

Funny I have the same foundry marks on one of my Anderson lowers as well as my DD.

As far as lowers and uppers go it's all the same, just whose CNC it ran through is all.

Messed a lot with different "quality" brands throughout the years. It's all the same junk as far as the AR platform goes. It's all just marketing. If you understand the true meaning of Fit, Form, and Function that is.

The bolt, barrel, and trigger are your mains, IMHO.

Even then most barrel blanks are from FN.. Few companies really manufacture their own barrels these days, due to it being expensive to start up and maintain. Even fewer do quality cut rifling.


"Explain your theory of gapless rings will cause wear patterns in the bolt. A) the bolt is heat treated and lapped smooth, the rings are softer then the bolt. Rings "wear in" to create a good seal. In all the big horsepower hemis I built one had to use gapless rings or after a couple runs, the supercharger would push the alcohol past the rings."

I'll agree with the rings wearing in, part of the "parent-child relationship" of materials.

However, eventually the "parent material" will itself wear as well. Just not as quickly as the "child material." That's why you see ring ridge in the bores of older blocks

So yes, the rings will wear the bolt. Eventually.

Just the opinions of a Journeyman Tool and Die maker/Mechanical Engineer.

 

[55fairlane]

Excellent shooting!
My AR-15 rifles won't do that.

I try irons once in a while on some rimfire BSA International and Winchester 52 rifles but my old eyes just laugh at me and tell me to use a scope.

Me loves some vintage smallbore !!

No has taught you how to shoot thru the irons......come on by I will get ya all wrapped up in my sling and shooting X's

 

[55fairlane]

Funny I have the same foundry marks on one of my Anderson lowers as well as my DD.

As far as lowers and uppers go it's all the same, just whose CNC it ran through is all.

Messed a lot with different "quality" brands throughout the years. It's all the same junk as far as the AR platform goes. It's all just marketing. If you understand the true meaning of Fit, Form, and Function that is.

The bolt, barrel, and trigger are your mains, IMHO.

Even then most barrel blanks are from FN.. Few companies really manufacture their own barrels these days, due to it being expensive to start up and maintain. Even fewer do quality cut rifling.


"Explain your theory of gapless rings will cause wear patterns in the bolt. A) the bolt is heat treated and lapped smooth, the rings are softer then the bolt. Rings "wear in" to create a good seal. In all the big horsepower hemis I built one had to use gapless rings or after a couple runs, the supercharger would push the alcohol past the rings."

I'll agree with the rings wearing in, part of the "parent-child relationship" of materials.

However, eventually the "parent material" will itself wear as well. Just not as quickly as the "child material." That's why you see ring ridge in the bores of older blocks

So yes, the rings will wear the bolt. Eventually.

Just the opinions of a Journeyman Tool and Die maker/Mechanical Engineer.

There you go, silly tool & die maker thinks he smarter then the guy who has read every AR15 magazine at the news stand, but never built his own rifle, let alone chambered his own barrels.

From one tool maker to another

Aaron

 

[SPOOK331945]

There you go, silly tool & die maker thinks he smarter then the guy who has read every AR15 magazine at the news stand, but never built his own rifle, let alone chambered his own barrels.

From one tool maker to another

Aaron

When stuff really hits the fan, I'll take the toolmakers that can make a Khyber pass gun vs. the 3k rifle "build" group that still needs a smith when it breaks.

The term "build" gets thrown around too loosely these days.

If you're not using a mill or lathe are you really building or are you assembling?

 

[nonobaddog]

The term "build" gets thrown around too loosely these days.

If you're not using a mill or lathe are you really building or are you assembling?

Exactly.

When I was a kid I assembled some hot rods, fighter jets and Naval destroyers, all with a little Testors cement, and more recently I have assembled a few AR-15 rifles - I could not actually build anything even close to any of them.

 

[Creedmoor]

When stuff really hits the fan, I'll take the toolmakers that can make a Khyber pass gun vs. the 3k rifle "build" group that still needs a smith when it breaks.

The term "build" gets thrown around too loosely these days.

If you're not using a mill or lathe are you really building or are you assembling?

I can operate a mill and a lathe, but a machinist I am not.
Its difficult to beat a man at his own game..

 

[55fairlane]

I can operate a mill and a lathe, but a machinist I am not.
Its difficult to beat a man at his own game..

Come on by, we can discuss our junk rock river rifles while I get ya tuned up on how to run my little south bend lathe........

 

[Creedmoor]

Come on by, we can discuss our junk rock river rifles while I get ya tuned up on how to run my little south bend lathe........

My meager time spent with machining consists of doing some plastic injection mold repair.
Machining down and finishing the finish mold pin ends with replacing broken bent injector pins.
And I tig, so ive rebuilt parting lines and ground and filled to above the plane for someone else lol to machine it to specs.
Im really a man that is a controls Allen Bradley & Siemens and a metal fabrication guy.

Thanks I just might, I would like to look at and through your irons. The service rifle I have posted with a scope I ordered with the handle with RR peeps on it.
I have a set of Redfield Internationals but a bit too vintage. lol

Edit...
Looks like in the next few weeks I will be in Ft Wayne to the pawn shop thats a Surefire dealer on the south side. I need to order a Socom 5.56 can.

 

[SPOOK331945]

I can operate a mill and a lathe, but a machinist I am not.
Its difficult to beat a man at his own game..

I will say there is a difference between a Tool and Die Maker and a Machinist. The link below will better explain than I can.



Several years back when I started as an apprentice I once called one of the elder Master Tool and Die Makers a machinist..

After dodging an angle plate flying through the air, a stern voice followed. "A machinist is a Tool and Die Maker's b@#$^%& child."

He later sat me down and explained the difference and that there are four rankings of a Tool and Die Maker.

Apprentice 0-4 years
Journeyman 4-8
Toolmaker 8-12
Master Toolmaker 12+

Not to take away from any machinist here. They are still a valuable and rare workforce. But there is a difference and they are often interchanged.

As for me based on my years, I fall within the Toolmaker. Will I ever be a Master? No. I spend more time behind a desk than sharpening my skills these days.

Also, unfortunately, most of the knowledge to reach that skill ranking has been lost over the years to those that have since passed on or retired. I think, within our country that is, that workforce will forever be lost to time.

This is just a recollection of the lesson I learned as an apprentice. One I won't soon forget.

 

[Creedmoor]

I will say there is a difference between a Tool and Die Maker and a Machinist. The link below will better explain than I can.



Several years back when I started as an apprentice I once called one of the elder Master Tool and Die Makers a machinist..

After dodging an angle plate flying through the air, a stern voice followed. "A machinist is a Tool and Die Maker's b@#$^%& child."

He later sat me down and explained the difference and that there are four rankings of a Tool and Die Maker.

Apprentice 0-4 years
Journeyman 4-8
Toolmaker 8-12
Master Toolmaker 12+

Not to take away from any machinist here. They are still a valuable and rare workforce. But there is a difference and they are often interchanged.

As for me based on my years, I fall within the Toolmaker. Will I ever be a Master? No. I spend more time behind a desk than sharpening my skills these days.

Also, unfortunately, most of the knowledge to reach that skill ranking has been lost over the years to those that have since passed on or retired. I think, within our country that is, that workforce will forever be lost to time.

This is just a recollection of the lesson I learned as an apprentice. One I won't soon forget.

Thanks, I get the apprentice thing.
Im a retired union elevator journeyman, I also picked up a journeyman plumbers along the way. I would have liked to spend more time years ago behind machining but it just didnt work out.
What I have seen in the plastic injection stamping business around Madison co with die men is disapointing. Now let me be clear, im excluding the big three and people that did a true 4-5 or better journeymanship.

 

[55fairlane]

I will say there is a difference between a Tool and Die Maker and a Machinist. The link below will better explain than I can.



Several years back when I started as an apprentice I once called one of the elder Master Tool and Die Makers a machinist..

After dodging an angle plate flying through the air, a stern voice followed. "A machinist is a Tool and Die Maker's b@#$^%& child."

He later sat me down and explained the difference and that there are four rankings of a Tool and Die Maker.

Apprentice 0-4 years
Journeyman 4-8
Toolmaker 8-12
Master Toolmaker 12+

Not to take away from any machinist here. They are still a valuable and rare workforce. But there is a difference and they are often interchanged.

As for me based on my years, I fall within the Toolmaker. Will I ever be a Master? No. I spend more time behind a desk than sharpening my skills these days.

Also, unfortunately, most of the knowledge to reach that skill ranking has been lost over the years to those that have since passed on or retired. I think, within our country that is, that workforce will forever be lost to time.

This is just a recollection of the lesson I learned as an apprentice. One I won't soon forget.

I started my apprenticeship in 1986............seems like a life time ago.
These days I spend more time supervising then making chips.
I have taught myself CNC and I must say, there is a place for the CNC in the toolroom.

 

[55fairlane]

My meager time spent with machining consists of doing some plastic injection mold repair.
Machining down and finishing the finish mold pin ends with replacing broken bent injector pins.
And I tig, so ive rebuilt parting lines and ground and filled to above the plane for someone else lol to machine it to specs.
Im really a man that is a controls Allen Bradley & Siemens and a metal fabrication guy.

Thanks I just might, I would like to look at and through your irons. The service rifle I have posted with a scope I ordered with the handle with RR peeps on it.
I have a set of Redfield Internationals but a bit too vintage. lol

Edit...
Looks like in the next few weeks I will be in Ft Wayne to the pawn shop thats a Surefire dealer on the south side. I need to order a Socom 5.56 can.

Im out on the east side, New Haven.....let me know when your gonna be in town.
If we have the time and the weather is on our side, we can even hit the range......I'm game to show ya my match rifle

 

[Elcardo]

I don't have an adjustable block on any ar15 now but I've thought of it for going back and forth from muffler/no muffler
Legit question , why are adjustable gas blocks a problem on ar's ?
Is it because of direct impingement? Seems like there are a fair number of other platforms with adjustable gas
And my dd5v4 in .308 has it and that's DI ...Seems like DD is all about serious use guns but idk......

 

[Chalky]

Like many things a lot depends on what, who & how they are installed. I have one on my 6.5 grendel and haven't had an issue after dialing it in. Many use them when running suppressors. I understand not wanting one on your "battle rifle". Like many other situations and decisions, the key is use case. I used one because it was recommended to me and was my first grendel which is more of a range/hunting gun. If it was 5.56, probably wouldn't have used one. YMMV

 

[ltromann]

I don't have an adjustable block on any ar15 now but I've thought of it for going back and forth from muffler/no muffler
Legit question , why are adjustable gas blocks a problem on ar's ?
Is it because of direct impingement? Seems like there are a fair number of other platforms with adjustable gas
And my dd5v4 in .308 has it and that's DI ...Seems like DD is all about serious use guns but idk......

Carbon build up had been a real problem for a lot of the adjustable gas blocks in the past. The adjuster would get locked into place and youd not able to move it. Theres more moving parts to possibly get damaged. And the vast majority of the time, they are very unecessary.
Theres a few companies that have been pretty innovative and ill admit, there is one that I see might be useful and may even try here soon. The Riflespeed adjustable GB.
But so far, I haven't had issues with my ARs running standard gas block and tube, with a properly ported barrel, tight fitting block and tube, along with a in spec bolt carrier group. Running both suppressed and unsupressed without issue.

 

[Chalky]

Carbon build up had been a real problem for a lot of the adjustable gas blocks in the past. The adjuster would get locked into place and youd not able to move it. Theres more moving parts to possibly get damaged. And the vast majority of the time, they are very unecessary.
Theres a few companies that have been pretty innovative and ill admit, there is one that I see might be useful and may even try here soon. The Riflespeed adjustable GB.
But so far, I haven't had issues with my ARs running standard gas block and tube, with a properly ported barrel, tight fitting block and tube, along with a in spec bolt carrier group. Running both suppressed and unsupressed without issue.

If the adjuster is locked into place then it's not a moving part. Once it's dialed in and working, how is that a problem if it should happen? Have you ever used one and had a problem?

 

[ltromann]

If the adjuster is locked into place then it's not a moving part. Once it's dialed in and working, how is that a problem if it should happen? Have you ever used one and had a problem?

The whole point of it is to be able to adjust it as needed. So, if it gets carbon locked, then it's a failure and will no longer function as advertised. If you don't want it to adjust, get a standard gas block

 

[Chalky]

The whole point of it is to be able to adjust it as needed. So, if it gets carbon locked, then it's a failure and will no longer function as advertised. If you don't want it to adjust, get a standard gas block

Ah ok, that's your opinion of the whole point. If you don't need one, then once it's working, why adjust it? Your logic is interesting, and you didn't say if you have any experience with one. Regardless, everyone has a right to their opinions.

 

[ltromann]

Ah ok, that's your opinion of the whole point. If you don't need one, then once it's working, why adjust it? Your logic is interesting, and you didn't say if you have any experience with one. Regardless, everyone has a right to their opinions.

I have had experience with one. And it got an excess of carbon built up and choked itself out. Wasn't allowing enough gas through anymore and couldn't adjust it. Had to be disassembled and soaked to get it to free up.
And if you aren't needing to actually adjust it and are just going to keep it in the "working setting", then don't get an adjustable. Get a standard, steel gas block, it will work for you and there's no extra parts to mess up