'Why Believe in a God? Just be Good'

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  • BloodEclipse

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    In the trenches for liberty!
    'Why Believe in a God? Just be Good' Ads Set to Run Next Week Through Christmas On D.C. Buses

    Tuesday , November 11, 2008
    WASHINGTON, D.C. —
    You better watch out. There is a new combatant in the Christmas wars.

    Ads proclaiming, "Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness' sake," will appear on Washington, D.C., buses starting next week and running through December. The American Humanist Association unveiled the provocative $40,000 holiday ad campaign Tuesday.
    In lifting lyrics from "Santa Claus is Coming to Town," the Washington-based group is wading into what has become a perennial debate over commercialism, religion in the public square and the meaning of Christmas.
    "We are trying to reach our audience, and sometimes in order to reach an audience, everybody has to hear you," said Fred Edwords, spokesman for the humanist group. "Our reason for doing it during the holidays is there are an awful lot of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists who feel a little alone during the holidays because of its association with traditional religion."
    To that end, the ads and posters will include a link to a Web site that will seek to connect and organize like-minded thinkers in the D.C. area, Edwords said.
    Edwords said the purpose isn't to argue that God doesn't exist or change minds about a deity, although "we are trying to plant a seed of rational thought and critical thinking and questioning in people's minds."
    The group defines humanism as "a progressive philosophy of life that, without theism, affirms our responsibility to lead ethical lives of value to self and humanity."
    Last month, the British Humanist Association caused a ruckus announcing a similar campaign on London buses with the message: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."
    In Washington, the humanists' campaign comes as conservative Christian groups gear up their efforts to keep Christ in Christmas. In the past five years, groups such as the American Family Association and the Catholic League have criticized or threatened boycotts of retailers who use generic "holiday" greetings.
    In mid-October, the American Family Association started selling buttons that say "It's OK to say Merry Christmas." The humanists' entry into the marketplace of ideas did not impress AFA president Tim Wildmon.
    "It's a stupid ad," he said. "How do we define 'good' if we don't believe in God? God in his word, the Bible, tells us what's good and bad and right and wrong. If we are each ourselves defining what's good, it's going to be a crazy world."
    Also on Tuesday, the Orlando, Fla.-based Liberty Counsel, a conservative Christian legal group, launched its sixth annual "Friend or Foe Christmas Campaign." Liberty Counsel has intervened in disputes over nativity scenes and government bans on Christmas decorations, among other things.
    "It's the ultimate grinch to say there is no God at a time when millions of people around the world celebrate the birth of Christ," said Mathew Staver, the group's chairman and dean of the Liberty University School of Law. "Certainly, they have the right to believe what they want but this is insulting."
    Best-selling books by authors such as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens have fueled interest in "the new atheism" — a more in-your-face argument against God's existence.
    Yet few Americans describe themselves as atheist or agnostic; a Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life poll from earlier this year found 92 percent of Americans believe in God.
    There was no debate at the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority over whether to take the ad. Spokeswoman Lisa Farbstein said the agency accepts ads that aren't obscene or pornographic.

    Ok to start with I am agnostic. I find this ad repulsive. Just like most people don't want to have religion shoved down their throat, I think that having ads saying "Don't believe in God" are just as bad.
    We live in America, where we have freedom of religion. Your beliefs most likey are not the same as those you sit next to in church. We have the freedom to our beliefs. These attacks only ever seem to be on Christianity and Judaism. Muslims seem to get a pass. This false premise of a separation of Church and state is false. Whether people like it or not this Country was founded on Christian principles. We are allowing our identities to erode when we let businesses and government redefine our heritage.

    Renaming Christmas Trees to Holiday Trees, not allowing nativity scenes on government property. Don't even get me started on the crap our schools pull.

    I have arrived at my beliefs after a lifetime of study and reasoning. It is mine. I don't push it on anyone, but I do discuss it with many when they ask. Though I don't agree with most religions, I have studied them and I understand why they have so many followers. I also will defend the rights of everyone to believe how they see fit. An attack on religion is just an attack on all of us because it becomes an attack on the right to believe in anything.
     

    BloodEclipse

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    In the trenches for liberty!
    The group defines humanism as "a progressive philosophy of life that, without theism, affirms our responsibility to lead ethical lives of value to self and humanity."

    Sounds like another group empowered by the election results. I get suspicious anytime I hear about a group of agnostics or atheists doing anything. They are more than likely about something else. I'm sure if the members of these "Groups" were looked into they are all Marxists.

    I went to Marxist.com ( http://www.marxist.com/Theory/marxism_and_religion.html ) and found this.

    Marxists stand on the basis of philosophical materialism, which rules out the existence of any supernatural entity, or anything outside or "above" nature. There is, in fact, no need for any such explanation for life and the universe - least of all today. Nature furnishes its own explanations and it furnishes them in great abundance.

    The latest discoveries have finally exploded the nonsense of Creationism. It has comprehensively demolished the notion that every species was created separately, and that Man, with his eternal soul, was especially created to sing the praises of the Lord. It is now clearly proved that humans are not at all unique creations. The results of the human genome project show conclusively that we share our genes with other species - that ancient genes helped to make us who we are. Humans share their genes with other species going far back into the mists of time.

    This explains why these "Groups" are anti-Religion. If I was Paul Revere I might be atop my stead shouting "The Marxists are coming"
     

    Rattlesnake46319

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    Oct 8, 2008
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    Jefferson County, MO
    Ok to start with I am agnostic. I find this ad repulsive. Just like most people don't want to have religion shoved down their throat, I think that having ads saying "Don't believe in God" are just as bad.
    We live in America, where we have freedom of religion. Your beliefs most likey are not the same as those you sit next to in church. We have the freedom to our beliefs. These attacks only ever seem to be on Christianity and Judaism. Muslims seem to get a pass. This false premise of a separation of Church and state is false. Whether people like it or not this Country was founded on Christian principles. We are allowing our identities to erode when we let businesses and government redefine our heritage.

    Renaming Christmas Trees to Holiday Trees, not allowing nativity scenes on government property. Don't even get me started on the crap our schools pull.

    I have arrived at my beliefs after a lifetime of study and reasoning. It is mine. I don't push it on anyone, but I do discuss it with many when they ask. Though I don't agree with most religions, I have studied them and I understand why they have so many followers. I also will defend the rights of everyone to believe how they see fit. An attack on religion is just an attack on all of us because it becomes an attack on the right to believe in anything.

    Well said! :yesway:
     

    imprimis5

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    Oct 24, 2008
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    Ok, just for fun, I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

    Why do these people have any less moral authority to essentially say "Take the Christ out of Christmas" than the other half do to say "Put the Christ back in Christmas"?

    It's the double-edged sword of our First Amendment rights. If you want to be able to say whatever the hell you want, you have to let other people do it, too. The reason places are taking down nativity scenes is because they don't want to deal with the inevitable occurrence of someone wanting to press the issue of putting up a symbol of another religion's holiday that happens to fall at the same time.
     

    rcuhljr

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    Carmel
    How is this ad campaign any different then the billboards I've seen advertising for religion? *second to the devils advocate bandwagon it seems today. >.> *
     

    BloodEclipse

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    In the trenches for liberty!
    Ok, just for fun, I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

    Why do these people have any less moral authority to essentially say "Take the Christ out of Christmas" than the other half do to say "Put the Christ back in Christmas"?

    It's the double-edged sword of our First Amendment rights. If you want to be able to say whatever the hell you want, you have to let other people do it, too. The reason places are taking down nativity scenes is because they don't want to deal with the inevitable occurrence of someone wanting to press the issue of putting up a symbol of another religion's holiday that happens to fall at the same time.

    I never said they didn't have a right to say it. I said I found it disgusting.
    I won't go into all of the attacks I have seen but anyone remember Christ on the crucifix submerged in urine? Had that been Muhammad not only would that "Artist" been tried for a hate crime, Muslims around the world would have been calling for his head.

    Would that same city allow "Don't be Gay" on their Buses?
    The reason they don't want to put up Nativity Scenes is because they don't want to be sued by CAIR or the ACLU.
     

    Indy_Guy_77

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    Is any of this really "news", though?

    This stuff has been going on as long as there have been differing belief systems.

    Sadly, my cynical self isn't surprised by it.

    Also, as someone above has pointed out, we have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Living in a free country (for now) means that we can pick and choose as we desire without governmental influence. It does not mean that we won't be free from seeing, hearing, and/or reading about other viewpoints.

    I believe that the values, teachings, and the person of Christ stand on their own. Bring on other views. I am not scared.

    -J-
     

    imprimis5

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    Oct 24, 2008
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    I believe that the values, teachings, and the person of Christ stand on their own. Bring on other views. I am not scared.

    -J-

    This is the point that needed to be made. This shouldn't shake anyone's faith. And most likely, it will actually have about as much affect as the signs that say "Put Christ back in Christmas." Which is to say, about as much affect as that Jesus fish you have on the back of your car. No one's ever been swayed by that sort of statement, when it comes to religion.
     

    haldir

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    Goshen
    I always find it interesting that the atheists feel the need to proselytize. Why is there the need to bring others to a state of non-belief? It makes one wonder...

    Also keep in mind that atheists give much less to charities per capita than Christians do. Even if you remove the giving to their churches the Christians have a higher rate. If you don't want to talk money, look at the time volunteered once again Christians volunteer their time at a much higher rate than the atheists. Be good for goodness sake... doesn't seem to be happening.
     

    Marc

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    im a christian, born and raised that way and im not affraid to discuss religion. everyone is entittled to their own belief, i know people of the same religion as me see it differently. Also although i may be a christian i am open to all religions, thats when i use this saying.

    "While i practice the Judea christian ethic, i also support the eastern philosphies and ofcourse the teaching of muhammad. BUT i find that all religions are corrupted in justifying countless attrocitites throughout history. so there for if i were to go to chruch i would be a hypocrite."

    i actually supprised a buddist friend on how much more i know about the path of enlighyenment than he does.
     

    rcuhljr

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    Carmel
    Also keep in mind that atheists give much less to charities per capita than Christians do. Even if you remove the giving to their churches the Christians have a higher rate. If you don't want to talk money, look at the time volunteered once again Christians volunteer their time at a much higher rate than the atheists.

    Actually this is largely due to the overlay of the fact that the poor tend to donate more then the rich, they are closer to donation centers and understand the need for charity more, this combined with the fact the poor tend to be much more religious then the rich and... there you go.

    I think it's worth mentioning religious social capital yields higher rates of murder, STD's, abortions, and teen pregnancies then atheists. Win some, lose some I guess.
     

    Indy_Guy_77

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    I think it's worth mentioning religious social capital yields higher rates of murder, STD's, abortions, and teen pregnancies then atheists. Win some, lose some I guess.

    Let's not lose sight of the fact that not everyone who claims a particular religion is actually a follower/practicioner of that religion.

    Look at some of the biblical parables..allegorical stories of groups of people who knew what was/is coming; I will paraphrase here. 1, the parable of the 10 virgins. 10 people knew what was coming...yet we find out that only 5 were prepared for it. 2, the parable of the workers in the wheat field. I belive that there were two workers...1 was prepared, 1 was not. 3, the parable of working on the threshing floor, 1 was prepared, 1 was not.

    In each of these three instances, the ratio of those who "were prepared" to those who weren't is 50/50.

    The parables allude that so many more people think that they're ready (For Jesus' return) than those who actually ARE ready.

    Such is the spiritual condition of "the church" today, in my opinion. Based upon those three small but powerful stories, I believe that when Jesus comes for his church, that there are going to be a whole heck of a lot of "Christians" (perhaps 50%?) that are wondering what's happened.

    Also, do you think that that Koran allows for "moderates"? Personally, I do not. I do not believe that the teachings of the Koran allow a Muslim to simply pick and choose which tenets they follow.

    In other words, to state that "religious" folks have higher instances of murder, STD's, abortion, and pregnancy may be true. But I argue that these statistics do not come from the TRUE believers of the religion that they claim.

    -J-
     

    rcuhljr

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    I'd be inclined to agree with your last two points. Although I assume I take a different outlook on what those two facts mean :)
     

    ATM

    will argue for sammiches.
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    "Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness' sake,"

    This implies that most people are only being good for God's sake. The first question stands alone as a fully debatable inquery. The second statement in no way answers the question. It just tosses out some drivel about attributing the good we strive toward to the higher power of... goodness?:laugh: Love for love's sake, hunger for hunger's sake, stupidity for stupidity's sake? Drivel worthy of a childrens song, at best. I believe in God and will explain why to those who ask. IMHO, goodness, absent some faith in One greater than ourselves, is too rare a commodity to stake on itself.:twocents:
     

    96harley

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    Does it matter whether we believe in God in order to celebrate Christmas? I know people who claim to believe in God and they celebrate, it hasn't stopped them.

    Does someone have the choice to claim there is no God?
    Everyone who cast a shadow on this earth has the ability to make that choice. It's called free will. God gives that to everyone born. He forces himself upon no man. We decide what we will do with him. The ball in in our court.

    Non-believers who try forcing me to believe as they do have no right to do so. They seem to forget this is a nation founded on Christian principles. I don't know what the percentage is population wise but I am sure believers, not necesarrily those who actively follow Christianity, are a much larger percentage of our population than the nay-sayers.


     
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