WC 842 powder

[mickar15]

I just bought 8lbs of WC 842 from Profire. I've been using 24grs of H335 with a 55gr bullet in my .223 loads. They were out of the H335, but had a milsup powder at a good price, so I thought I'd try it.

Profire says use the same load data as H322. After an internet search, other people have been told by their supplier that it the equivalent of CFE 223.

There are warnings from folks, saying it is not CFE223 or H322, but is much hotter than either of them.

My question is this: Does anyone have any experience with this powder?
I have read where I should reduce starting loads for CFE 223 or H322 by 10 to 25% and work up from there.

I'm only looking for velocities in the 2800-2900 fps range, and have a chrono.

I'd be grateful for any suggestions.

 

[j706]

I shoot 25.0 of the same you have (Profire's pull down powder) with 55 grain FMJ. Good all around load IMO.

 

[jmemmert]

Andrew told me 23.5 gr on the 842. I believe his recommendation on 844 is 25 gr. Talking 55 and 62 gr. That seems to be consistent with what I have found online.

 

[HamsterStyle]

I just bought 8lbs of WC 842 from Profire. I've been using 24grs of H335 with a 55gr bullet in my .223 loads. They were out of the H335, but had a milsup powder at a good price, so I thought I'd try it.

Profire says use the same load data as H322. After an internet search, other people have been told by their supplier that it the equivalent of CFE 223.

There are warnings from folks, saying it is not CFE223 or H322, but is much hotter than either of them.

My question is this: Does anyone have any experience with this powder?
I have read where I should reduce starting loads for CFE 223 or H322 by 10 to 25% and work up from there.

I'm only looking for velocities in the 2800-2900 fps range, and have a chrono.

I'd be grateful for any suggestions.

I was finding all that same info. I was just getting ready to make this same post. Now I can keep an eye on this one.

 

[red_zr24x4]

WC844 uses H335 and WC846 uses BLC2 (that might be switched I'd have to look). But like using any new powder, opening a new jug,or switching lot numbers you should start out low and work up every time.
I've never been to Profire, but from what I've read he wouldn't steer you wrong, if he says use H322 I'd believe him. I'd start low and work up to find the load that works the best in your gun.

 

[Hosted]

Dang, I sure wish there was a place near Fort Wayne like Profire where I could get my hands on some of these surplus powders to try.

 

[mickar15]

WC844 uses H335 and WC846 uses BLC2 (that might be switched I'd have to look). But like using any new powder, opening a new jug,or switching lot numbers you should start out low and work up every time.
I've never been to Profire, but from what I've read he wouldn't steer you wrong, if he says use H322 I'd believe him. I'd start low and work up to find the load that works the best in your gun.

I am planning to start low, I'm trying to determine where low is.

My thinking so far is to start at 20 grs and see if it will cycle my 20" AR.
I'll work up from there until I get the most accurate load in the 2800-2900fps range.

 

[j706]

[/B]

I am planning to start low, I'm trying to determine where low is.

My thinking so far is to start at 20 grs and see if it will cycle my 20" AR.
I'll work up from there until I get the most accurate load in the 2800-2900fps range.

Research the load data. You go too low it will blow your gun as easy as going too high.

 

[Broom_jm]

I am planning to start low, I'm trying to determine where low is.

My thinking so far is to start at 20 grs and see if it will cycle my 20" AR.
I'll work up from there until I get the most accurate load in the 2800-2900fps range.

Using QuickLoad: H322 powder, under a Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT, seated to 2.260" OAL, with a 20" barrel, gives the following projections:

20gr - 31000psi - 2620fps
21gr - 35000psi - 2750fps
22gr - 40000psi - 2885fps
23gr - 46000psi - 3013fps
24gr - 53000psi - 3140fps (Note: This charge is mildly compressed)

I don't think 20 grains is TOO low of a start charge, but none of the starting loads from Lyman's manual give less than ~35,000psi. Based on that, I'd call 21 grains your starting charge and expect best accuracy around 23 grains.

 

[mickar15]

Research the load data. You go too low it will blow your gun as easy as going too high.

I've never seen a gun blow up from too low a charge, and I've seen squib loads that only had a primer in them. The bullet stuck in the barrel, but didn't harm the gun.

I'm not saying that it might not have ever happened, but I've never seen it.

 

[Broom_jm]

I've never seen a gun blow up from too low a charge, and I've seen squib loads that only had a primer in them. The bullet stuck in the barrel, but didn't harm the gun.

I'm not saying that it might not have ever happened, but I've never seen it.

Pistol reloading and rifle reloading are quite different. Every reloading manual out there warns against going below the minimum charge weight with many powders, specifically because they can blow up. I haven't seen someone get struck by lightning, but I don't go out fishing in my aluminum boat during a thunderstorm.

 

[Yeah]

A number of boneheaded moves need to align to blow up a chamber with an undercharge, but people do it regularly. You'd need to choose a powder that can pack sufficient explosive power via burn speed to go over pressure while at the same time allowing enough slack case volume to provide fast flame propagation. Not too dissimilar from the effects of grain fracture, magnified. Starts on page 14.

As for WC844, the lot I have from Profire is a touch slower than all of the several lots of H335 I've sourced from suppliers. It also delivers a higher ES.

In the same 5.56 chambered barrel 24.8 grains of H335 under a moly'd 62 TSX averages 61,140 psi with a pressure peak after 0.299 milliseconds of bullet travel. The same load of WC844 under the same conditions does 60,210 after 0.327 ms.

 

[mickar15]

A number of boneheaded moves need to align to blow up a chamber with an undercharge, but people do it regularly. You'd need to choose a powder that can pack sufficient explosive power via burn speed to go over pressure while at the same time allowing enough slack case volume to provide fast flame propagation. Not too dissimilar from the effects of grain fracture, magnified. Starts on page 14.

As for WC844, the lot I have from Profire is a touch slower than all of the several lots of H335 I've sourced from suppliers. It also delivers a higher ES.

In the same 5.56 chambered barrel 24.8 grains of H335 under a moly'd 62 TSX averages 61,140 psi with a pressure peak after 0.299 milliseconds of bullet travel. The same load of WC844 under the same conditions does 60,210 after 0.327 ms.

How are you measuring the pressure of your loads?

 

[Yeah]

Pressuretrace.

Those rise times are after ignition, not bullet travel. Too used to reading QL output.

 

[mickar15]

Pressuretrace.

Those rise times are after ignition, not bullet travel. Too used to reading QL output.

Oh no. Now I have one more thing I need to spend money on. Thanks

Just kidding, I'll have to save my money.

 

[LarryC]

Personally I would never reload using surplus powder without a Chrony - My son and I do load using 844 and 846, the 842 and 844 are great 223 /5.56 powders and we use the 846 for .308 & 30-06. But each lot can be very different in rate of burn - The military buys this powder to a pretty wide spec. as I have learned - then run the tests on the pressure and velocity to determine what to load in that batch. We have found some that is right on the commercial equivalent and some that is off by 2 -3 grains. That is enough to damage a gun if you are loading to near max velocity. We always start at the minimum charge listed for the equivalent powder - load 5 or 10 - move up 1/2 grain load 5-10, until we are near max. Then we measure the velocity (compared to the loading manual for the bullet weight, inspect the primer for any excess pressure signs etc. until we reach the velocity we want. (rarely do we load right to the max.) This is the safe way to do it. Once you know how that lot of surplus powder compares to the commercial, you can load different bullet weights without going through all the steps - but I would still check the first few with a crony and visual inspection of the primer and brass. If we show any excess pressure signs we pull all the cartridges loaded with that weight or larger charge. Every re-loader ought to own and use a chronograph - You can find them for a lot less than a good powder scale and IMHO just as important.

 

[LarryC]

I've never seen a gun blow up from too low a charge, and I've seen squib loads that only had a primer in them. The bullet stuck in the barrel, but didn't harm the gun.

I'm not saying that it might not have ever happened, but I've never seen it.

My understanding is that if you load below the min, the power may not fill the case sufficiently and may not burn properly. It may light a portion of the powder, push the bullet into the lands and stop, then the remainder of the powder ignites - with the bullet jammed there, excess pressure then occurs, sometimes with enough force to blow the gun. Nearly the same issue as loading with too long COL, when chambered the bullet is forced into the lands and excess pressure is required to start the bullet down the pipe.

 

[mickar15]

Personally I would never reload using surplus powder without a Chrony - My son and I do load using 844 and 846, the 842 and 844are great 223 /5.56 powders and we use the 846 for .308 & 30-06. But each lot can be very different in rate of burn - The military buys this powder to a pretty wide spec. as I have learned - then run the tests on the pressure and velocity to determine what to load in that batch. We have found some that is right on the commercial equivalent and some that is off by 2 -3 grains. That is enough to damage a gun if you are loading to near max velocity. We always start at the minimum charge listed for the equivalent powder - load 5 or 10 - move up 1/2 grain load 5-10, until we are near max. Then we measure the velocity (compared to the loading manual for the bullet weight, inspect the primer for any excess pressure signs etc. until we reach the velocity we want. (rarely do we load right to the max.) This is the safe way to do it. Once you know how that lot of surplus powder compares to the commercial, you can load different bullet weights without going through all the steps - but I would still check the first few with a crony and visual inspection of the primer and brass. If we show any excess pressure signs we pull all the cartridges loaded with that weight or larger charge. Every re-loader ought to own and use a chronograph - You can find them for a lot less than a good powder scale and IMHO just as important.

I mentioned in my original post that I have a chrony.

 

[mickar15]

My understanding is that if you load below the min, the power may not fill the case sufficiently and may not burn properly. It may light a portion of the powder, push the bullet into the lands and stop, then the remainder of the powder ignites - with the bullet jammed there, excess pressure then occurs, sometimes with enough force to blow the gun. Nearly the same issue as loading with too long COL, when chambered the bullet is forced into the lands and excess pressure is required to start the bullet down the pipe.

That makes sense.

 

[chuddly]

I got some of the same powder and plan to work up a load in the next week or so. But my real question is where is the minimum for the 842 powder? I was planning on starting at about 24 grn and working up from there like LarryC talked about (thats how i work up all my loads but i normally load them at a mid range load rather than higher). I just wanted to know if 24 grn is ok place to start from??