USPSA survey

[Tanfodude]

USPSA Surveys - USPSA.ORG

uspsa.org

 

[jakemartens]

The USPSA Rules Committee and Board of Directors have several proposals up for membership feedback.

The proposals cover competition rules updates in MultiGun, Steel Challenge and USPSA Competition rulesets. Please review the proposals before submitting the survey and feedback.

There are two equipment rule proposals; these cover Production Division capacity, and a change to L10 allowing optics. There is also a proposal for a provisional division, Limited Optics.

Results of the survey and feedback will be presented during the January 28-29th in-person board meeting.
Additional questions and feedback should be directed to the entire board at: board@uspsa.org

Please review the following proposals before submitting feedback:

USPSA Rules Committee Report :

https://bit.ly/3I8iA5G

USPSA Rules Audit : https://bit.ly/3WRRdBg

SCSA Rules Audit : https://bit.ly/3GorAlP

Limited 10 Equipment Change Proposal :

https://bit.ly/3WRAr4Y

Equipment Change Proposal :

https://bit.ly/3WwD0Ka

Rules Audit - Multigun Dec 2022 :

https://bit.ly/3PYWQLy

USPSA Limited Optics Provisional Divisional Rules :

https://bit.ly/3jCNBV6

Feedback can be submitted here :

USPSA Surveys - USPSA.ORG

uspsa.org

 

[Good on paper]

Production should go 15 rds if it helps it stay relevant.
As many others have stated there already is a division that allows slide mounted optics for single action guns, shoot that division. I don’t know what the politics are on the push to a slide mounted single action division unless there is advertising dollars coming in from STI or Springfield that might help with USPSA’s budgetary ‘situation’.

Edit: Springfield

 

[downrange72]

Production should go 15 rds if it helps it stay relevant.
As many others have stated there already is a division that allows slide mounted optics for single action guns, shoot that division. I don’t know what the politics are on the push to a slide mounted single action division unless there is advertising dollars coming in from STI or Remington that might help with USPSA’s budgetary ‘situation’.

I'll hold my opinion until I can further study it.

Production sucks. So I'm Okay with whatever they do to it. I might shoot it more if the capacity was raised.

Limited optics seems like a carry optics or Limited killer. Since it appears that carry optics guns could fit into Limited optics too. Possibly Open will be obsolete too. Maybe a optics major and minor?

Right now no warm and fuzzies but I'll study it a little more

 

[Tanfodude]

I guess I'm on the minority as I opt to leave it alone. I don't care how many shoot it as I know I won't win. I understand that people are shying away from it because, mag change is hard and it affects stage planning, especially om stages designed for hi cap mags. Well, it's where I find it fun as I'm very efficient with mag changes.

But I expected that the majority rules and the org will go with the numbers.

 

[longbeard]

What should happen imo.

Production goes to box or 15
CO becomes production with a slide ride. Same rules with a dot.

Personally, I like the box, but a box will need provided. It alleviates a production list that needs maintained.. However, people will game this to find the largest capacity production guns that fit.

Limited optics is introduced. It is limited with a slide ride.

This would seem to make the most sense to me as it creates a real difference between the optic divisions besides sao and a magwell. However, I believe CO cannot be touched for a certain period due to the last change and a by law regarding waiting a few years before further changes? I am not certain, but think this is true.

 

[76caprice]

I filled mine out production leave alone, I tried optics I’m both eye dominant can’t do it. So will limited optics be split from limited irons? And will it be mixed like ss minor and major??
I’m a ss shooter that’s where I personally have the most fun for me. That’s my .02….

 

[jakemartens]

I filled mine out production leave alone, I tried optics I’m both eye dominant can’t do it. So will limited optics be split from limited irons? And will it be mixed like ss minor and major??
I’m a ss shooter that’s where I personally have the most fun for me. That’s my .02….

It would be a separate division

 

[sv40sw45]

It would be a separate division

Have to get those SOA Staccato's their own division.

 

[diverjes06]

Sounds like Carry Optics Major.....

 

[sv40sw45]

Staccato Major, Staccato Minor, so the guys with $3000 Staccato 9mm will not have to compete with Open Class.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Staccato Major, Staccato Minor, so the guys with $3000 Staccato 9mm will not have to compete with Open Class.

How about Limited Optics, Limited Iron?

 

[2-Alpha]

I said just allow SA guns in CO, But I guess compared to CO, Limited also allows major, mag wells, and race holsters? If it makes sense to keep those features separate, then LO makes sense.

CO is basically Prod. with slide-ride optics, so I wonder why it didn’t have the 10-rd limit too? If Prod. doesn’t stay 10-rd, then it makes sense for it to have to the same mag rules as CO (not “15-rd”).

 

[longbeard]

I dug in a little deeper. Below are the pertinent by laws. One thing to consider.
Adding SA to CO would take a year and would limit guns to the production list.
A provisional division could happen immediately.

As I stated earlier, I am for LO, but think it should happen in conjunction with changing Production to use an updated capacity and having CO become the optic version of that division. This would create a nice symmetry in the divisions where you can just add/subtract an optic. However, it is a long game to make it happen vs. a short game to get LO immediately. My thoughts are patience might create a better framework for the long term.

I would preserve L10 as irons and consider an optic version for it as well.

 

[longbeard]

I said just allow SA guns in CO, But I guess compared to CO, Limited also allows major, mag wells, and race holsters? If it makes sense to keep those features separate, then LO makes sense.

CO is basically Prod. with slide-ride optics, so I wonder why it didn’t have the 10-rd limit too? If Prod. doesn’t stay 10-rd, then it makes sense for it to have to the same mag rules as CO (not “15-rd”).

It originally was 10 rounds, but IMO did not take off until the capacity increased.

 

[cedartop]

It originally was 10 rounds, but IMO did not take off until the capacity increased.

I shot it the first year with the gun that I had been carrying for the 7 years prior to that. I agree with your take upstream. Production optics and Limited optics. Of course Limited optics would probably cut into open pretty hard. Is there really a right answer?

 

[Jaybird1980]

I shot it the first year with the gun that I had been carrying for the 7 years prior to that. I agree with your take upstream. Production optics and Limited optics. Of course Limited optics would probably cut into open pretty hard. Is there really a right answer?

I'm not sure if Limited Optics would cut that much into Open.
Still retain shorter mag, no comps. Maybe make the optic slide mounted instead of frame.

I agree there is no right answer.

The more divisions, equals more rules, which equals more confusion and bitchin

 

[sv40sw45]

Why not make LO 9mm Major like open Class? Same equipment. Same rules, NO COMPS

 

[Good on paper]

Why not make LO 9mm Major like open Class? Same equipment. Same rules, NO COMPS

I think their target audience for LO is 3 gun guys with 9mm 2011’s with a slide mounted optic. One of the arguments is major beats up guns.

You guys that currently shoot CO do you have any interest in going single action?

 

[longbeard]

I think their target audience for LO is 3 gun guys with 9mm 2011’s with a slide mounted optic. One of the arguments is major beats up guns.

You guys that currently shoot CO do you have any interest in going single action?

For me, a Shadow 2 will likely be a good gun in either division shooting minor.

Tough call on major. I would prefer minor to avoid another mixed division as I would hate to see the division just become a home for .40 caliber in the name of wanting preferential scoring.

On the other hand having it be Limited with a red dot means simplicity in rules, and I like that a lot.

No right answer I guess and too late to burn the whole game down and re-do all the divisions.