TSA has Responded

[ArmedProgrammer]

TSA has responded. Some of you may remember that after being violated by the Indianapolis Airport version of the TSA, I responded with a letter.
Here's the thread:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general_political_discussion/122260-now_i_understand.html


In short, I opted out of using the Indy Airport, in favor or using ones that I have less of a problem with.

Today, I received a reply:

Mr. [Armed Programmer]:
Officials at Indianapolis International Airport forwarded to me your feedback message dated 12/6/2010. Your message expressed displeasure with the security measures you experienced while traveling through IND.
If you are open to a telephone call from me, I'd welcome a conversation with you to answer any questions you may have about why TSA employed the procedures you experienced and other security measures you may not have experienced. I may be able to offer you insights that reduce the likelihood of you being subjects to secondary screening in the future regardless of the airport you chose to use. You mentioned opt out of TSA screening. I could shed some light on the mechanics of that process and what it would and would not mean to the airport operator and our customers. Security protocols are the same regardless of whether the screening officers are public servants or private contractors.
Thank you for the civility you demonstrated in your message. I'm hopeful you will respond.
Sincerely,
REDACTED
Federal Security Director
TSA Indiana Hub

And here was my reply:

Mr. REDACTED -
Thank you for the thoughtful and reasonable reply to my email. It is a rare and appreciated thing to receive an honest and reasoned reply these days. As it happens, I am making my weekly commute from IAH back to SDF tonight. Note that I am not going through IND. As you could tell from my email, I was indeed displeased by the treatment I received at IND. I appreciate your offer of a conversation on the topic, as I do have questions, and would welcome the chance to have them answered. I have been through several airports recently for various reasons and could also likely provide feedback that you might find interesting as well. It would seem that the application of the "enhanced" procedures are different from place to place. Perhaps an unbiased customer can provide what I see as "best practices" at different airports as well.
I would welcome a phone call from you. I will be at my office [.. a bunch of scheduling details and contact info redacted]. Please feel free to call me at (XXX)XXX-XXXX . If I am tied up, or you get my voice mail, please leave me a message with the best way to speak with you.
Thanks again for the tone of your email and I do look forward to speaking with you and learning a little more regarding how this works. All of us have an interest in flying safely - hopefully with our dignity and liberty intact.
Best regards,
[Armed Programmer]

I look forward to the call....

 

[KokomoDave]

Keep us apprised!

 

[level.eleven]

These types of threads are a positive. Please, keep us up to date if you have the time.

 

[96firephoenix]

Mr. [Armed Programmer]:
Officials at Indianapolis International Airport forwarded to me your feedback message dated 12/6/2010. Your message expressed displeasure with the security measures you experienced while traveling through IND.
If you are open to a telephone call from me, I'd welcome a conversation with you to answer any questions you may have about why TSA employed the procedures you experienced and other security measures you may not have experienced. I may be able to offer you insights that reduce the likelihood of you being subjects to secondary screening in the future regardless of the airport you chose to use. You mentioned opt out of TSA screening. I could shed some light on the mechanics of that process and what it would and would not mean to the airport operator and our customers. Security protocols are the same regardless of whether the screening officers are public servants or private contractors.
Thank you for the civility you demonstrated in your message. I'm hopeful you will respond.
Sincerely,
REDACTED
Federal Security Director
TSA Indiana Hub

that is simply not the case. ORD (O'Hare) uses a private security firm for their security screening, and they employ pretty much none of the same security protocols as the TSA insists on. they use only metal detectors and baggage x-rays

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

96fp -

I agree that not all airports are on the "Enhanced" screening. Louisville (SDF) is on the older style metal detectors as well. That's why I fly out of there now. I wasn't aware that ORD was private. Good to know. I'll have to ask about that when the subject comes up.

Thanks for the info.

 

[flatlander]

If you think its bad there, try going thru a middle eastern airport. Searched/ scanned 5 times between the front door and the plane. Yes they were the pat searches from hell.

Bob

 

[danielocean03]

If you think its bad there, try going thru a middle eastern airport. Searched/ scanned 5 times between the front door and the plane. Yes they were the pat searches from hell.

Bob

Sorry to hear that Bob, stay safe out there. Thank you for your service!

 

[danielocean03]

ArmedProgrammer:

Great response, I look forward to hearing what they have to say. To say the least, I'm not looking forward to flying out of IND at the end of the month to FLL. (Ft. Lauderdale) for training. I've heard nothing positive in regard to the "enhanced" liberty-stripping "security" measures they've employed.

 

[Tactical Dave]

96fp -

I agree that not all airports are on the "Enhanced" screening. Louisville (SDF) is on the older style metal detectors as well. That's why I fly out of there now. I wasn't aware that ORD was private. Good to know. I'll have to ask about that when the subject comes up.

Thanks for the info.

Some airports have private security but still have to abide by the TSA rules/procedures whatever as said above. Granted they are probably better trained.

The smaller the airport the less money really that they have/get to spend on stuff. SDF is only the airport that it is because UPS is there, if it was a larger airport I am sure it would have the body scanners or at the very least at some point will have them any way.


Like said above some of the middle eastern countries make our searches look like a cake walk....... some of their security walk around with full auto stuff and very mean dogs that would love to eat you...


When he calls you might ask why most of the time cars are parked at the departure or arival drop off at IND and sometimes they are parked two wide and there is not a TSA agent to be seen and often when you do see them they seem to have their backs turned to it regularly.


There is only one way that you will probably allways be able to avoid the TSA or any kind of screenings, become a pilot and buy or rent a plane or rent a charter......... or become a senator or member of congress in Washington.


Not to defend the search but if another 9-11 happend and we had super laxed airport security people would be all up in arms again like they were then about wanting better/more security to prevent stuff like that...... so in all honesty and not to defend them but they are in a loose loose situation........ regardless of what they do the end result will be un happy people..... unless the bad guys never use a flying machine again and we all know the chances of that.


Gotta keep an open mind with all of it and have to remember the up roar that happend after 9-11.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

ArmedProgrammer:

Great response, I look forward to hearing what they have to say. To say the least, I'm not looking forward to flying out of IND at the end of the month to FLL. (Ft. Lauderdale) for training. I've heard nothing positive in regard to the "enhanced" liberty-stripping "security" measures they've employed.

Christmas Day, my wife and I flew from Indy to Hawaii (by way of Phoenix).

We only had to do the standard metal detectors. FWIW, we only had to do the standard metal detectors when we left HI to come home, too.

-J-

 

[rimfire_crazed]

Christmas Day, my wife and I flew from Indy to Hawaii (by way of Phoenix).

We only had to do the standard metal detectors. FWIW, we only had to do the standard metal detectors when we left HI to come home, too.

-J-

Same here. I was subjected to no such searches on any leg of my Christmas travels, nor did I observe anyone else being subjected to secondary screening of any sort. Quick walk through the metal detector, picked up my carry on items off the belt, put my shoes on, and stuffed myself full of terrible airport travel food.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

A couple of points.

Tactical Dave - I agree that some degree of scrutiny is important for our safety. That said, I DON'T believe that they are using anywhere NEAR the most intelligent means when I see them waste tons of time effectively strip searching people who are highly unlikely to do harm while NOT giving that same "consideration" to someone who is. In the interest of not being called a racist and all sorts of ugly things (and because I honestly feel this way) let's just confine it to considering that the guy who's flown the same flight back and forth as a commuter every week for the last 52 weeks is HIGHLY unlikely to take the plane down. So have that sort of a person go through a background check, get a card, and speed the process up. The guy who's made a recent trip to HolyCrapIstan (and it WASN'T with the military)? OK extra scrutiny might be in order. I think we at a MINIMUM have our efforts misplaced. We all have the same goal - arrive alive. We can do it by INTELLIGENTLY applying our efforts, and keeping our liberty and dignity intact.


I have also noticed that there is a wide variation of of how harshly things are applied from airport to airport and even terminal to terminal. The TSA crews don't vary. I see the same people every week. I could tell you which guy to say something to in IAH's B Terminal and watch him lose it and go ballistic on a customer. I've seen him do it 4-5 times!

RF Crazed and Indy Guy - I will take a guess here. Did you go out of the Right or Left Terminal at IND. By virtue of the fact that Indy Guy went through Phoenix Sky Harbor, I'm guessing he went through the left hand (Southwest/AmericaWest/USAirways) terminal. I suspect that they treat people very differently there than they do in the Continental/United/Delta Terminal - why do I suspect this? I've been through Southwest Airlines terminals recently (Houston Hobby airport , etc) and I've seen that even though they have the enhanced scanners, they were over the top nice and considerate. Don't think that the airport's direction and occupants don't have a say in how the experience is?? My experience suggests differently. I may not have done it a LOT of times, but I've got to think that there's a difference.

THAT is why I pointed my emails at BOTH the IND operator AND at Continental. They can make SIMPLE changes in their attitude and approach that would make a BIG difference. To provide a cheap example - all nurses have to provide the same service - but everyone knows that there's only two kinds of nurses: one's that are reasonable and cool and understanding - and then there's the Nurse Ratchet types. Same is true of security, in my opinion. There's a difference between using intelligence to provide the best - and being the Security Nazi...

I really want to find out about the privatization. I believe that re-privatization is the right thing to do - both from a governmental/Constitutional point of view and from an effectiveness point of view. Why? Private contractors paid by the airlines have an incentive to keep their size DOWN. Part of the problem with the TSA from what I've seen is the bloated size and nature of the thinking. The private setup has less incentive to "throw more bodies at it" so they inherently have less incentive to resort to some of the dumb "scanning and searching" ideas - and more incentive to do things in a more intelligent fashion. Neither way is perfect, but I believe that the privatized route will lead to LESS of the "over the top" behavior.

OK - enough of my rant. I _am_ curious to hear this gentleman's thoughts on how best to do things. I trust that it will be a reasonable discussion and exchange of ideas.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

We DID fly USAir... and we did go "left" through the atrium.

I did see ONE guy go through the enhanced backscatter scanner. I do not know if he chose it (??) or was asked to go through it.

I DO know that my wedding ring set the metal detector off. The women working said that was a first for them...

-J-

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Must be a mondo size ring... I've _never_ seen one set things off either.

Thanks for the info - I do believe that there's a wider variation between airports and even terminals than anyone (especially TSA??) would like to admit.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Just an 8mm Tungsten carbide dealio. Size 10.5.

 

[Lucas156]

Once you have some terrorist shooting up Walmart or something youre going to have to go through TSA screenings just to go shopping. Where is the line drawn? Im sure many of you have asked the same question. Are we going to have to go through TSA screening before we even leave our own property some day?

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Just got off the phone with the gentleman. Interesting conversation. It will take a while to write it up, but I'll have it out there by tonight.

 

[KokomoDave]

While we DO fly outta IND we go to Sarasota vs Tampa as they are ay better treating folks in Sorry Soda!!

It does cost more but we like it so it's worth the extra ca$h.

 

[jsgolfman]

Thanks for sharing, it's an interesting discussion.

 

[jedi]

that is simply not the case. ORD (O'Hare) uses a private security firm for their security screening, and they employ pretty much none of the same security protocols as the TSA insists on. they use only metal detectors and baggage x-rays

So no enhanced imaging @ ORD?
Is this only for domestic flights?

I ask becuase my aunt was here from Mexico back in NOV and she told me she had to go thru the new x-ray machine (whole body image) at ORD but not in Mexico.