The pump action shotgun today?

[BehindBlueI's]

Wouldn't worry about the handguns as much as the AR and AK rifles. They have the greatest barrier penetration unless you start using shotgun slugs. The larger caliber pistols in 9mm and up are not much better or worse in penetration than 12 gauge 2-3/4" buckshot.

You can't make any of those statements without knowing what ammunition is being used. A hard cast or solid copper 9mm is more of a penetration hazard than a soft point frangible 5.56 round. Even buckshot varies quite a bit based on the construction of the pellet, such as plated or unplated, hardness of the pellets, etc.

Anything with enough power to take down a thug will go through several interior walls unless it hits a piece of solid furniture plus a stud or two, or the thug, whichever comes first.

That's simply wrong. Winchester Ranger 55gr softpoint is a prime example of a bullet that works great on meat but has very little penetration through drywall or the like. It immediately tumbles, fragments, and then sand blasts the next wall with tiny fragments.

 

[Fordtough25]

You're correct for sure BehindBlueI's, I think for home defense where penetration is a concern the 5.56 carbine can't be beat! Like anything else in the shooting realm knowing your area/objectives are vital. Who here had tested getting their kids/loved ones to the "safe" room in your house at night? When I first did it both with a handgun with mounted light and shotgun/carbine it was eye opening.

 

[teddy12b]

Here's my little beater 590A1:

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You're correct for sure BehindBlueI's, I think for home defense where penetration is a concern the 5.56 carbine can't be beat!

It's tough to argue with. I recall one particular scene where an AR was used, a bullet struck an aluminum window frame, and the interior wall looked like a tiny sandblaster had hit it. We could recover one small piece of jacket, and that was it.

Like anything else in the shooting realm knowing your area/objectives are vital.

Which, honestly, is another advantage of the AR. There is a lot of flexibility that's achievable just by swapping ammo, and at home defense ranges the tiny shifts in POI vs POA are not going to be noticeable. While it's still important to know your back stop, to work angles as much as possible, etc. the 55gr thin jacketed round is generally much less dangerous after a wall than, say a 64 gr bonded bullet designed for penetration. It's much easier to "tune" for your circumstances.

I think the shotgun and the AR both are very viable choices. If I could only have one, though, it'd be the AR.

 

[Leadeye]

Winchester Model 97, like the Colt 1911, still doing the job well after 100+ years.

 

[Expat]

Winchester Model 97, like the Colt 1911, still doing the job well after 100+ years.

Not only doing it well, but doing it in style... they are good looking firearms.

 

[Fordtough25]

Winchester Model 97, like the Colt 1911, still doing the job well after 100+ years.

Heck yes, I've been wanting a model 97 for years!!! I almost got one last year at Acme, they had a whole pile of them, but funds were not available at the time. Love those beauties, along with the model 12.

 

[Fordtough25]

Here's my little beater 590A1:

Nice! I've thought about spraying my 590a1 as its been used and shows it. May have to do it now.

 

[Hohn]

Heck yes, I've been wanting a model 97 for years!!! I almost got one last year at Acme, they had a whole pile of them, but funds were not available at the time. Love those beauties, along with the model 12.

ACME has 3 of em in stock still as of yesterday. One was a 1903 model and very clean. I badly wanted it.

 

[Hohn]

It's tough to argue with. I recall one particular scene where an AR was used, a bullet struck an aluminum window frame, and the interior wall looked like a tiny sandblaster had hit it. We could recover one small piece of jacket, and that was it.



Which, honestly, is another advantage of the AR. There is a lot of flexibility that's achievable just by swapping ammo, and at home defense ranges the tiny shifts in POI vs POA are not going to be noticeable. While it's still important to know your back stop, to work angles as much as possible, etc. the 55gr thin jacketed round is generally much less dangerous after a wall than, say a 64 gr bonded bullet designed for penetration. It's much easier to "tune" for your circumstances.

I think the shotgun and the AR both are very viable choices. If I could only have one, though, it'd be the AR.

With the proviso that it have a can, I'd agree on the short AR carbine. I'd think something like a Bren 805 with a can might even be better.

 

[Fordtough25]

ACME has 3 of em in stock still as of yesterday. One was a 1903 model and very clean. I badly wanted it.

Well thank you that's great info, remember the price?

 

[Expat]

Heck yes, I've been wanting a model 97 for years!!! I almost got one last year at Acme, they had a whole pile of them, but funds were not available at the time. Love those beauties, along with the model 12.

I would like to find a nice 03 or 03A3 Springfield that wasn't priced out of sight one of these days when I have money. They seem to have doubled in price in the last few years.

 

[Fordtough25]

I would like to find a nice 03 or 03A3 Springfield that wasn't priced out of sight one of these days when I have money. They seem to have doubled in price in the last few years.

My little brother has a real nice Remington 03A3 from '43, real slick shooter. I told him if he got tired of it to let me know lol

 

[teddy12b]

Nice! I've thought about spraying my 590a1 as its been used and shows it. May have to do it now.

I got such a good deal on the shotgun I wanted to do a turncoat spray on it. I did a pretty rough and bad job on it.

 

[jbombelli]

Yes. I rock a shotgun. A nice, simple, 870 Wingmaster (1972 production) with 2 3/4" 00 buck loads. The bluing is perfect, the wood is perfect, the action is butter smooth.

And I got it in trade for a song.

 

[Radtgaeb]

I still think the pump shotgun is absolutely viable and relevant.

They're "for dummies" simple to operate. They are incredibly simple to breakdown and clean. Accessories and peripherals are abundant.

Best yet, even in 2013 during "peak freak" at the ammo counter, you could typically find at least target load shotshells.

Finally, as a tool, they're often the most cost effective thing on the market. For hunters, enthusiasts, and people wanting a defense gun on a budget; it's hard to recommend something more worthy and versatile than a pump action shotgun.

 

[VERT]

I still think the pump shotgun is absolutely viable and relevant.

They're "for dummies" simple to operate. They are incredibly simple to breakdown and clean. Accessories and peripherals are abundant.

Best yet, even in 2013 during "peak freak" at the ammo counter, you could typically find at least target load shotshells.

Finally, as a tool, they're often the most cost effective thing on the market. For hunters, enthusiasts, and people wanting a defense gun on a budget; it's hard to recommend something more worthy and versatile than a pump action shotgun.

I disagree that they are "for dummies" simple to operate. I think that perception exists because so many people leaned to hunt and shoot shotguns growing up. But I assure you that the defensive shotgun when used properly is a thinking man's gun. To think otherwise would be same as thinking any idiot can insert a magazine, pull a charging handle and line up a red dot with the target.

 

[Radtgaeb]

I didn't mean to suggest anyone can just pick it up and innately know how to use it...but they are relatively simple to learn how to operate and maintain.

 

[VERT]

I didn't mean to suggest anyone can just pick it up and innately know how to use it...but they are relatively simple to learn how to operate and maintain.

They are certainly easier to clean and maintain compared to an AR carbine. At least in my opinion. I hate cleaning my AR. With an 870 I think all I need for the apalcalypse is a rag and a can of remoil.

 

[Radtgaeb]

They are certainly easier to clean and maintain compared to an AR carbine. At least in my opinion. I hate cleaning my AR. With an 870 I think all I need for the apalcalypse is a rag and a can of remoil.

For sure. My Benelli Nova with chrome lined barrel is a breeze to keep clean. Don't want to fiddle with that dirty gas impingement system on my AR if I don't absolutely have to.