The other side of the "Had a scare tonight" stories

[rmabrey]

Disclaimer:The following story is true to my knowledge as told to me by a co-worker and is only for informational/entertainment purposes. I am in no way saying actions on the other persons part were or were not warranted.

A little background on him first. 35 year old black male, moved from Chicago 10 years ago to to get away from gang life before he ended up dead or in prison. Now he just works and goes home to his family.

Said co-worker was taking a walk around the lake by our work today. As he was getting clothes to a husband, wife, and child feeding the ducks, the husband opens his jacket to reveal he was carrying a stainless revolver. It was obvious this guy wanted him to see it.

As wife sees my co-worker coming up she says to husband loudly "Honey will you...." Husband quickly cuts her off and says "Don't say anything i'll get them" and precedes to hurry towards the baby bag, and wife's purse (~30 feet away) at a brisk pace, while not taking his eyes of my co-worker (basically racing him to the bags), and still making it clear he is carrying.

At this point, my co-worker had finally put 2 and 2 together and was pretty shocked about the whole ordeal. He came back and told me and all i could really say was congratulations, you were just stereotyped.

Anyway, there is some insight to at least one case, of how they other side felt.

 

[garagegunmaker]

Have to ask, how was your co worker dressed?

 

[rmabrey]

Have to ask, how was your co worker dressed?

Jeans (around his waist and they fit him) ,a work polo tucked in and a jacket.

 

[billybob44]

Your friend WAS treated wrongly..

Yes , if things went down as you said, your friend was treated unfairly. I have seen that happen often-both ways.
I have seen, from working in the largest city of the state (Indy) this happen both ways. It just depends on what neighborhood you're in.
Most of this type of attitude comes from those that are uneducated or have had a bad experience with someone from a different race.
I am a 56 year old WM that lives East of Indy, in a county that is about 90% white population. There is really not many "Pants on the Ground" type of people (White OR Black) people out here. Yes, Black people are usually noticed due to their small % of population.
I worked the last two Indy 1500 shows. In the three days of each, driving from the far east side, into the SF Grounds, I was noticed by more than several Black people, on my trips to/from. Most of the looks were like-"Are you lost?"/"What are you doing in my neighborhood?", type of looks, especially at the stop lights-38th+Emerson,Sherman,Keystone.
To sum up my thinking, YES, there are bigots on BOTH sides of the race population. I, as well as other white people, have been victims of it too.
It seems-ONLY TO ME-that this is something that the whites are supposed to put up with, and the blacks are NOT??

 

[LPMan59]

naturally it was because he was black

 

[donfox411]

mabe the dude with the gun recognized the black dude from somewhere. u said he used to be in a gang, so possible he mugged the dude in his "past."

Just because someone moves a few miles and says he is clean doesn't mean you should be cautious and protect your own family.

 

[Bapak2ja]

When I am in Asia I get the same treatment, except there folks assume I am rich and have lots of money to give to the beggars on the street.

The father in this instance probably would write a good story about his "situational awareness." He would probably even comment that he was glad he was carrying.

Until I spent some time in Jamaica, I probably would have done something similar under those circumstances. It was not until I learned to read the clues that distinguish good guys from bad guys in the Afro-Caribbean community that I learned to do the same in the Afro-American community. (I am not an expert at this, but I am better at it than I was before living in Jamaica.)

A basic anthropological principle is that what people do not understand, or what challenges their worldview presuppositions, frightens them. This triggers the flight-fight response (in larger or smaller degree). In this situation, the man's response was a low-key fight response to perceived threat based on the appearance of someone he did not understand. He was required to respond to the situation based the information at hand interpreted through his personal cultural grid and experience.

In the early 1990s, I was taking my family from my home in the Harrison Hill area in the south-central part of Fort Wayne to somewhere on the north side of town. I ran out of gas near Pontiac and Harrison, just north of Pontiac (never mind why, long story). I had to leave my wife and three kids (two high schoolers, one grade schooler) in the car as I walked to the Shell station at the corner of Pontiac and Clinton. That area had become a Afro-American community. It was known for dangerous drug activity by then. I had seen at least one gang attack on a man there when driving though previously, as had other members of my family. I was not happy about leaving my family there, but I had no choice.

At the Shell station, I was unable to purchase a gas can. No way to transport gas to the car. As I contemplated my next move, a man in the convenience store volunteered to loan me his gas can. He was your typical black gangster at the time. Baggy pants were not common then, but he had the wife beater with blue jeans, gold necklace around an unshaven neck, bulging muscles—everything that just yelled black thug, specially designed to start the spidey senses tingling. He stood there quietly waiting about ten seconds for my response as another three or four black guys waited to hear my reply. He sensed my fear and said, "You carry the gas over there and I will meet you there." I smiled and agreed. I gassed up the car, the man came to get his gas can, and everything was fine.

Years later, after spending some time in Jamaica, I learned that being unshaved does not carry the same connotation in the Afro-American community as it did in my community. I learned that gold necklaces had a different meaning in these two worlds. I learned other clues to understand the person of color. I also learned that violence is feared just as much by the Afro-Caribbean as it is by me, a typical WASP. Two of my friends (both Black men), members of the church I attended, were murdered while I was in Jamaica.

We fear what we do not understand. We act on the basis of our experience and what we have been taught by our culture. Communication opens the door to understanding, but it requires taking a risk to open the door. The door must be opened by action from both sides of the door. Someone must knock (seek insight, experience, communication), and someone must open the door. Those on either side can knock.

Teddy Roosevelt once advised, "Speak softly, but carry a big stick." (My version of a well-know saying—may not be his exact words). In the OP's scenario, I wish the guy had allowed his "big stick" to have a softer voice (remained concealed), but I am not surprised by his action. Someday these guns can be beaten into plowshares. It will not come by political action, though, but by a Restoration by powers "far beyond those of mortal men." Until then, I will carry, watch my six, and try to learn to understand other cultures. Best I can do at this point.

 

[billybob44]

Excellent post..

Great post Bapak2ja+rep to you..

IMO what should be added is that this understanding should come at an early age.

In the last 2-3 decades the two parent household has dwindled-The % of ALL single parent households has risen dramatically! The idea of a Mother,Grand Mother,Aunt, or other single Female raising children has produced what it has=a larger prison population.

My Wife, and I (of 38yrs) have raised 4 children (26-35yrs. old),made sure we were around, gave them all the support to earn 4 year college degrees, and sent them out into the world/work place with the best chances of "Making It". They all live out of our household and are productive members of society.

This brings to my mind a statement made 13-14 years ago, by a "Lovely" First Lady--"It takes a Village to raise a Child"

To that quote, I say BS!!--It takes TWO committed people to raise children to be productive members of society!
Please do NOT ask/expect my Wife+I to continue raising other peoples children through all of the "Hand Out" plans that our Government wants to push.


Thanks--Rant Over..Bill..

 

[Bapak2ja]

Great post Bapak2ja+rep to you..

IMO what should be added is that this understanding should come at an early age.

In the last 2-3 decades the two parent household has dwindled-The % of ALL single parent households has risen dramatically! The idea of a Mother,Grand Mother,Aunt, or other single Female raising children has produced what it has=a larger prison population.

My Wife, and I (of 38yrs) have raised 4 children (26-35yrs. old),made sure we were around, gave them all the support to earn 4 year college degrees, and sent them out into the world/work place with the best chances of "Making It". They all live out of our household and are productive members of society.

This brings to my mind a statement made 13-14 years ago, by a "Lovely" First Lady--"It takes a Village to raise a Child"

To that quote, I say BS!!--It takes TWO committed people to raise children to be productive members of society!
Please do NOT ask/expect my Wife+I to continue raising other peoples children through all of the "Hand Out" plans that our Government wants to push.


Thanks--Rant Over..Bill..

Good rant. God did not create a village. He created two parents. As a professor used to say to my class, "That'll preach!."

 

[gunsrfun]

Sounds like someone feels that every black man is going to rob them. What would he have done if it had been a white guy and got jumped by him. He wouldn't trust anyone after that.

 

[rmabrey]

Bapak2ja I owe you some rep but I apparently have spread it around enough since the last time

 

[BBSparkle]

Great post Bapak2ja+rep to you..

IMO what should be added is that this understanding should come at an early age.

It takes TWO committed people to raise children to be productive members of society!
Please do NOT ask/expect my Wife+I to continue raising other peoples children through all of the "Hand Out" plans that our Government wants to push.

You are certainly right that a child's understanding and recognizing of people as individuals should be a lesson learned from the parents and from as early an age as possible. Whether it's a direct lesson or not, a child will pick up on how you perceive other people, so parents need to be aware of their own actions. Stereotyping is really pretty useful in a great many situations, but it is one of those things that is easy to take too far.

I dunno if you were just ranting at the liberal policies of years past or what, but to say that a single parent cannot raise a more than productive member of society is to make a rash and completely unfounded generalization. And don't forget to think of the 'village' that helped raise your children. Everyone you consider a part of your life certainly had some influence on them. Maybe people from your church group, lifelong friends, and neighbors who might have helped keep an eye on your kids when playing in the neighborhood. THESE are the communities that are needed to raise the young of our society, and if more people were active in this kind of 'village' we might see less and less government handout programs and children turning to gangs for support.

A small aside for a minute, for a friend of mine not too different from the man in OP.

A friend I met a few years back was working as a server at Steak N Shake. He was a nice, and surprisingly quick, intelligent guy. I found out that he was from California, had been raised by a single mother, and had gotten into some light gang activity/drug dealing. That activity continued once he moved here and eventually led to an arrest [no formal charges, no prison time] that started his wheels turning a different direction. He began working at Steak N Shake and UPS, working 7 nights a week to pay for tuition at IUPUI, for five years until he graduated with a B.A. from the Kelley School of Business. He is now completing his first year at Columbia with the intent of becoming a lawyer [unsure of what type of law, at this time].

The point of mentioning him is, he was raised by a single parent, but he claims the reason for his turn around are the people and friends he met late in his youth, not to mention the folks who left an impression on him at a young age.

It's unfortunate what happened in the OP but it will continue to happen as it's just human nature to fear what you don't know. Simply and instinctual defense mechanism that's there to protect us.

I'm incredibly tired and I'm sure I'll read this later and be embarrassed by how overly long-winded it is. Excuse my lack of brevity.

 

[youngda9]

I dunno if you were just ranting at the liberal policies of years past or what, but to say that a single parent cannot raise a more than productive member of society is to make a rash and completely unfounded generalization.

I believe he wasn't saying that it could not be done. But on average...look at the inner city single mother rates (>70% I believe)...then look at the rate of incarceration for said children. Case closed.

The "village" has become overtaken with evil and poor role models and pressures that these children aren't able to resist. Having a single parent off trying to make ends meat leaves the children to be raised and mentored by others on the streets, from similar situations(fathers incarcerated or involved in crime), that are up to no good. It's a vicious cycle.

I believe the breakdown of the family structure in this country is one of the worst(if not THE worst) downfalls of our society.

 

[BlueEagle]

Yeah, I don't think he was saying it couldn't be done, just that the statistics are stacked heavily against it.

Its definitely something that is learned from an early age; those first few years are so critical in the development of a child, and I think that so few parents really take the time to nurture them in the right ways.

We probably have a skewed view of that situation here, because this is a very specifically populated message board. For the most part, (and I'm generalizing,) we are people who are all concerned about our rights as Americans, and about protecting ourselves from harm, while following the laws of morality and our country/state. We may not have as good a window in to this particular scenario as others.

Like was posted before in this thread; one day we may be able to hammer all these guns into plows, but until then, there is much work to be done.

 

[Bapak2ja]

I believe he wasn't saying that it could not be done. But on average...look at the inner city single mother rates (>70% I believe)...then look at the rate of incarceration for said children. Case closed.

The "village" has become overtaken with evil and poor role models and pressures that these children aren't able to resist. Having a single parent off trying to make ends meat leaves the children to be raised and mentored by others on the streets, from similar situations(fathers incarcerated or involved in crime), that are up to no good. It's a vicious cycle.

I believe the breakdown of the family structure in this country is one of the worst(if not THE worst) downfalls of our society.

Well said. Good training must begin with the parents. If one is absent, it is very difficult for the child to find an appropriate model. Boys need their dads. If dad is absent, bad things are easier to happen. (I know, uncles serve that role in some African tribes, but I am referring to the act of mentoring that was traditionally done by the father in western civilization.) Boys learn to respect authority by learning to respect dad. Dad can be both guide and judge, at the appropriate times. Moms have a hard time being judge because boy needs to learn at some point that if he gets rowdy Dad can take him down. Boy knows mama can't do that.

Boy learns from Dad that you can only push so far before there are bad consequences. Respect for authority grows out of that lesson.

Do not mean that Dad has to beat the kid, though it is occasionally necessary to apply the board of education to the seat of learning in an appropriate way, but as the boy gets into the teen years he needs to learn there are others willing and able to meet his challenge.

There is a different dynamic for daughters, but they need mom and dad as well.

Good kids can emerge from single parent homes. It is just more difficult than for a couple. A father who remains monogamous, in the home, and provides loving leadership will be loved by wife and children and the entire family will prosper. A generalization, I know; but an accurate one, for the most part.

 

[youngda9]

it is occasionally necessary to apply the board of education to the seat.

Never heard it called that before

 

[Hornett]

I think it's the marines who say "Be polite, be professional, and have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
The loser in the OP did not understand the be polite and be professional part.
He was actually showing himself as someone who does not understand antisocial violence, and thereby making himself more of a target than if he had been friendly.
Had the OPs friend not been a normal guy with a family and actually been a thug looking for trouble, it could have turned bad very quickly.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Never heard it called that before

I had plenty of experience with it - in and out of school!

 

[Bapak2ja]

I think it's the marines who say "Be polite, be professional, and have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
The loser in the OP did not understand the be polite and be professional part.
He was actually showing himself as someone who does not understand antisocial violence, and thereby making himself more of a target than if he had been friendly.
Had the OPs friend not been a normal guy with a family and actually been a thug looking for trouble, it could have turned bad very quickly.

Ya gotta love those Marines. Clearly equal to the Spartans in fighting skill and spirit. Almost as good with words as the Spartans.

ἢ τὰν ἢ ἐπὶ τὰς
with it or on it

Μολὼν λαβέ
Having come, take

The Marines just need to say with fewer words. Hard to beat those laconic Spartans.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

This brings to my mind a statement made 13-14 years ago, by a "Lovely" First Lady--"It takes a Village to raise a Child"

To that quote, I say BS!!--It takes a family to raise children to be productive members of society!

FTFY
It takes a family to raise a child, whether that be one parent or two, or parent(s) and cousins/uncles/aunts/brothers/sisters. I'm a child of a one parent household, my son was one for a few years. I turned out okay(at least in my opinion), my son I believe is going to turn out much better. I won't disagree that two loving good parents are better than one, but I will disagree that it takes two.