The Great Debate or Caliber Wars

[VulpesForge]

I've been looking into a longer range hunting rifle for trips out west and have landed on 7mm rem mag more than once as an ideal caliber for the 500 yard ranges on game requiring the magical 1500ftlb energy at that distance. I arrived here based on the balance of rifle and ammunition availability, reloading component availability, and recoil. I'm aware of 280 AI and 28 Nosler, but I can't find ammunition/brass or a rifle in the same price ranges (under 1k). And 28 nosler seems to be $5 or more a round. My primary question is this: Is there any reason I should go for 300 win mag or another comparable or more powerful caliber over 7mm rem mag given the range, or have I come to the correct conclusion with 7mm rem mag? What caliber/rifle combos do you hunt long range with?

Secondarily, I'm looking at bergara rifles. I've looked at and held weatherby and I have owned a couple tikkas. I like the cerakote that is factory standard on the Bergara and they seem to have a following online. Does anyone here have any anecdotes, good or bad, they can share on a long action Bergara one way or the other? Rifle recommendations under 1k are welcome as I'm sure there's an oddball I haven't heard of somewhere.

Alternatively, feel free to post your favorite hunting calibers and question the masculinity of those that disagree with you.

 

[42769vette]

If it were me, and I didn't want 28 nosler, 7mm rem mag is where I would go.

As far as rifles, you got it right with the bergara

 

[BugI02]

If it were me, and I didn't want 28 nosler, 7mm rem mag is where I would go.

As far as rifles, you got it right with the bergara

I wouldn't rule out the 270 Winchester unless you're talking about taking heavy animals at long range like moose or elk

The .270 Winchester vs. the 7mm Remington Magnum

Comparing the .270 Winchester with the 7mm Rem Mag is like comparing grits and white cornmeal. Both are excellent cartridges. Both have been popular from their inceptions.

www.fieldandstream.com

Note that a 150 gr will hold that 1500 ft-lbs a bit beyond 500 yds

Mule Deer Cartridge Showdown: .270 Win. vs. 7mm Rem. Mag. vs. .300 Win. Mag.

Does the perfect mule deer caliber really exist? We put 3 popular cartridges to a head-to-head-to-head test

www.outdoorlife.com

For me, the lower recoil and lighter gun weight win out, as do the ease of reloading and the wide variety of load data available

Full disclosure, I have not taken game beyond 400 yards. Most of my hunting has been in upstate NY where most viable shots are between 150 and about 350 yds

 

[42769vette]

I wouldn't rule out the 270 Winchester unless you're talking about taking heavy animals at long range like moose or elk

The .270 Winchester vs. the 7mm Remington Magnum

Comparing the .270 Winchester with the 7mm Rem Mag is like comparing grits and white cornmeal. Both are excellent cartridges. Both have been popular from their inceptions.

www.fieldandstream.com

Note that a 150 gr will hold that 1500 ft-lbs a bit beyond 500 yds

Mule Deer Cartridge Showdown: .270 Win. vs. 7mm Rem. Mag. vs. .300 Win. Mag.

Does the perfect mule deer caliber really exist? We put 3 popular cartridges to a head-to-head-to-head test

www.outdoorlife.com

For me, the lower recoil and lighter gun weight win out, as do the ease of reloading and the wide variety of load data available

Full disclosure, I have not taken game beyond 400 yards. Most of my hunting has been in upstate NY where most viable shots are between 150 and about 350 yds

Kind of splitting hairs between 270, and 7mm, but ill bite.

I would go with 7mm for a few reasons.

1) better bullet selection
2) better factory ammo options
3) more factory rifles made in 7mm

Some people will say, you will never make a shot with a 7mm, that you would not make with a 270, and they are right.

Some people will say you will never make a shot with a 270 that you would not make with a 7mm, and they are right.

For me the advantage goes to the 28 nosler, but 7mm rem mag is 3rd no my list. That is not to say 270 fans are doing it wrong.

Clambering has nothing to do with wieght. Action length does. Both calibers can be produced to the same wieght give or take .000001 oz advantage to the 7mm for the same contour barrel having a slightly bigger hole in it for the larger bullet diameter.


I have taken a fair amount of game beyond 400, and either bullet in the right spot and an animal won't know the difference

 

[DadSmith]

7mm Remington Magnum is a great hunting cartridge. It can handle anything in North, Central, and South America.
Easy to reload. Brass and bullets are easy to find.

 

[two70]

It depends on exactly what you mean by "out west". If you mean mule deer, elk, and etc. in the lower 48 then the 7mm mag is a good choice but probably a bit more than you actually need. If out west extends to Alaska for you, I'd seriously consider starting at one of the moderate .30s (ie. .300 WSM, .300 Win Mag, or .300 PRC) and possibly going larger depending on the bear situation where you intend to hunt.

Another caliber that fits your criteria is the 6.8 Western which can push 170 grain bullets to 2900 fps. Rifles are available under $1k. Brass and ammo should be more available soon and until it is WSM brass can be converted fairly easily.

A used Tikka M695 would be hard to beat value wise provided you were ok with a bit of extra weight. You'd likely want to upgrade the recoil pad but even with that added expense, it should still be at or under $700. As for new rifles, a Bergara or an X-bolt(with the right deal) are likely going to be your best bets under $1k.

Lastly, most shots, even in the west, are going to be under 250 yards. Unless you're hunting markhor in the Pamirs or argali in the Altai range, if you're shooting animals at 500 yards, it is likely because you didn't try very hard to get any closer.

 

[DadSmith]

7mm Remington Magnum 175gr pushing over 2900fps.

 

[TLF]

I know three people who have Bergara rifles and they are quick to brag how happy they are with them. As for the 7mm mag it will do anything you need it to do. Good choice on both.

 

[Indy574]

Don’t think you could go wrong with either. I’ve shot the 300 win mag more, and would lean that way. I guess it comes done to component availability.

 

[Leadeye]

Always use enough gun.

 

[DadSmith]

Had a little more time to search and found this load. 180gr at 2914 fps with lower pressure. That's 3393 ft lbs of energy at muzzle. 7mm Remington Magnum

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Always use enough gun.
View attachment 196353

I remember reading gun mags as a kid and the 458 Winmag was the king. And then along came Weatherby and others...

 

[VulpesForge]

We're talking lower 48 here and moose would be the largest I intend to hunt. The 500 yard range was more for the theoretical bighorn across the peak shot in the Dakotas.

It depends on exactly what you mean by "out west". If you mean mule deer, elk, and etc. in the lower 48 then the 7mm mag is a good choice but probably a bit more than you actually need. If out west extends to Alaska for you, I'd seriously consider starting at one of the moderate .30s (ie. .300 WSM, .300 Win Mag, or .300 PRC) and possibly going larger depending on the bear situation where you intend to hunt.

Another caliber that fits your criteria is the 6.8 Western which can push 170 grain bullets to 2900 fps. Rifles are available under $1k. Brass and ammo should be more available soon and until it is WSM brass can be converted fairly easily.

A used Tikka M695 would be hard to beat value wise provided you were ok with a bit of extra weight. You'd likely want to upgrade the recoil pad but even with that added expense, it should still be at or under $700. As for new rifles, a Bergara or an X-bolt(with the right deal) are likely going to be your best bets under $1k.

Lastly, most shots, even in the west, are going to be under 250 yards. Unless you're hunting markhor in the Pamirs or argali in the Altai range, if you're shooting animals at 500 yards, it is likely because you didn't try very hard to get any closer.

I wasn't aware of 6.8 western in the slightest, but the bigger hunting rounds are something I'm really just getting started into. .308 win and 30-06 have been the largest game rifles I've ever taken a white tail with. How do the Browning X-Bolt's compare to Bergara? Are they significantly better for the extra bit of cash or are we talking more of a taste difference? I'm going to have to make my way to a bass pro or a cabela's to get my hands on one. The local shops don't tend to get brownings in unless DadSmith has a suggestion.

Speaking of, what barrel length was used to calculate the Hodgdon Data? That's an impressive set of numbers if they can really be reached.

I appreciate all the responses gentlemen. I think I've landed on 7mm rem mag for the caliber. Now I just have to figure out what rifle to buy.

 

[42769vette]

Don’t think you could go wrong with either. I’ve shot the 300 win mag more, and would lean that way. I guess it comes done to component availability.

That's one caliber I've never cared for. It seems to have a ton of recoil for the ballistics it produces.

I had both a 300 prc, and win mag at the same time. Same wieght rifle, same bullets. The prc was quite a bit faster, and had less recoil

 

[42769vette]

I've had the xbolt, b14 wilderness, and bergara HMR.

Of the 3, the xbolt would be my last pick. It could of been a unique instance, but the accuracy with all the ammos I tried never lived up to the bergara. That said the xbolt was plenty accurate enough to make critters fall over.

 

[DadSmith]

We're talking lower 48 here and moose would be the largest I intend to hunt. The 500 yard range was more for the theoretical bighorn across the peak shot in the Dakotas.



I wasn't aware of 6.8 western in the slightest, but the bigger hunting rounds are something I'm really just getting started into. .308 win and 30-06 have been the largest game rifles I've ever taken a white tail with. How do the Browning X-Bolt's compare to Bergara? Are they significantly better for the extra bit of cash or are we talking more of a taste difference? I'm going to have to make my way to a bass pro or a cabela's to get my hands on one. The local shops don't tend to get brownings in unless DadSmith has a suggestion.

Speaking of, what barrel length was used to calculate the Hodgdon Data? That's an impressive set of numbers if they can really be reached.

I appreciate all the responses gentlemen. I think I've landed on 7mm rem mag for the caliber. Now I just have to figure out what rifle to buy.

24" barrel which is about standard length. My dad has a Savage 110 lightweight it has a 26" barrel. He bought it back in the 80's. It is very accurate. He's taken several Mule deer with it. Elk seemed elusive when he carried it though. He did get a huge timber buck with it.

Found a picture of it.

 

[two70]

We're talking lower 48 here and moose would be the largest I intend to hunt. The 500 yard range was more for the theoretical bighorn across the peak shot in the Dakotas.



I wasn't aware of 6.8 western in the slightest, but the bigger hunting rounds are something I'm really just getting started into. .308 win and 30-06 have been the largest game rifles I've ever taken a white tail with. How do the Browning X-Bolt's compare to Bergara? Are they significantly better for the extra bit of cash or are we talking more of a taste difference? I'm going to have to make my way to a bass pro or a cabela's to get my hands on one. The local shops don't tend to get brownings in unless DadSmith has a suggestion.

Speaking of, what barrel length was used to calculate the Hodgdon Data? That's an impressive set of numbers if they can really be reached.

I appreciate all the responses gentlemen. I think I've landed on 7mm rem mag for the caliber. Now I just have to figure out what rifle to buy.

I don't see a strong reason to go bigger than the 7mm Mag for the lower 48 unless you just want more recoil.

The 6.8 will match or (slightly) exceed the velocity of the 7mm Mag with (slightly) better ballistic coefficients while using (slightly) less powder and producing (slightly) less recoil. The 7mm Mag is a bit more versatile on the top end with heavier bullets but the 6.8 is a little more versatile on the lower end with lighter bullets. The animal will likely never know the difference and the shooter may not either. It's just another option.

The Bergara and the X-bolt are just different in my opinion. Which is better is a matter of personal preference and what you value in a rifle. The Bergara is probably more accurate from the bench, whether its enough so that you'll actually notice the difference in the field I don't think so. To me, the X-bolt feels lighter in the hands and points a little bit better with their light thin barrels. I give a slight edge to the X in handling recoil as well especially in the wood stocked models and it has a shorter but much stiffer bolt throw. The Bergara has a lower base price but you can find some great deals on X-bolts online. Reed's Sporting Goods which is located in Minnesota and sells a lot of firearms on GB has had them on sale for well under $900 on occasion. Used ones typically go much closer to $700. You're not really going to go wrong with either one.

 

[two70]

That's one caliber I've never cared for. It seems to have a ton of recoil for the ballistics it produces.

I had both a 300 prc, and win mag at the same time. Same wieght rifle, same bullets. The prc was quite a bit faster, and had less recoil

I prefer the .300 WSM for similar reasons. It seems to have most of the performance of the .300 Win mag with a lot less perceived recoil.

That's good to know about the PRC, I've been thinking about getting one as my "big" .30 but wasn't sure if the increased performance was worth the recoil.

 

[BugI02]

Always use enough gun.
View attachment 196353

To get out to 500 yards with that you'll need a spotter and a couple of ranging shots to determine the barrel azimuth

 

[VulpesForge]

24" barrel which is about standard length. My dad has a Savage 110 lightweight it has a 26" barrel. He bought it back in the 80's. It is very accurate. He's taken several Mule deer with it. Elk seemed elusive when he carried it though. He did get a huge timber buck with it.

Found a picture of it.

View attachment 196400

That rifle looks like it has some soul to it. The reddish brown butt pad with a white stripe reminds me of every rifle my grandfather passed to me. I'm going to go hug my 1903 Springfield for a while.