TEACHERS new training on how to handle kids

[Cru]

Education in the United States is compulsory, by law. FAPE (Free Appropriate Public Education) is an initiative under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act that guarantees availability of public educational services to all students, but particularly students with disabilities, at the national level.

Free Appropriate Public Education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We are getting into the realm of fundamentally altering the basis of our laws at the federal level regarding availability of services for all people, regardless of physical or cognitive ability.

I won't go too far into my personal beliefs in this area, as they do diverge from "politically correct" thinking in several ways, but this is where the rubber meets the road. Guaranteeing equal opportunity for all American children and actually providing equal opportunity for all American children are two very different things.

The individual student is only part of the equation... As I'm sure you know, outliers exist in every data set. There are many children who do not fit the prototype of a "high potential" student who are perfectly capable of incredible academic achievement. This is why providing an initial opportunity is so important.

In my humble opinion, the steps taken by Indiana will lead to a breakdown of this process. Low-income, minority, disabled and under-achieving students will be relegated to "public schools" as private schools will refuse to accept them. This is unfortunate for the students, because a 6-year-old is inherently unable to determine a course for his/her education... Under our current system, at least those children are guaranteed a shot despite their family background. Under the proposed system, I feel they will be at a disadvantage from the first day of Kindergarten.

I do agree that compulsory education, by its very nature, creates a significant amount of drag on the entire educational process. Students who do not want to be there should not be forced to participate.

Further, he increased privatization of post-secondary education (colleges and universities) has led to severe tuition inflation and a general devaluation of a college degree. I foresee the same problems occurring in K-12 education, in addition to a severe decrease in the quality and availability of services for students who currently benefit from them most.

This is not to say that I think public education should at all carry on in its current form, only that we have painted ourselves into a corner in terms of legislation by setting the legislative precedent that all students have a right to equal access to resources and that all students have a right to equal academic outcomes.

As I mentioned earlier, the flaw in the proposed system is that we are offering incentives for results alone rather than for the specific behaviors that lead to the desired results.

Under the proposed system, the "good schools" will simply bypass any student who poses any sort of challenge in terms of educating them. The "mediocre" schools will be catch-alls and the "public schools" will be forced to take the leftovers from both of the above...

So either way, your tax money is still going to be collected and spent, but under the new system we have the added problem of losing economies of scale.

I just finished taking a course on the FAPE bit. Needless to say I had a vastly different view than most of the other students in the class. I got called a “douche” a few times for my opinions.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Education in the United States is compulsory, by law. FAPE (Free Appropriate Public Education) is an initiative under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act that guarantees availability of public educational services to all students, but particularly students with disabilities, at the national level.

Free Appropriate Public Education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We are getting into the realm of fundamentally altering the basis of our laws at the federal level regarding availability of services for all people, regardless of physical or cognitive ability.

I won't go too far into my personal beliefs in this area, as they do diverge from "politically correct" thinking in several ways, but this is where the rubber meets the road. Guaranteeing equal opportunity for all American children and actually providing equal opportunity for all American children are two very different things.

The individual student is only part of the equation... As I'm sure you know, outliers exist in every data set. There are many children who do not fit the prototype of a "high potential" student who are perfectly capable of incredible academic achievement. This is why providing an initial opportunity is so important.

In my humble opinion, the steps taken by Indiana will lead to a breakdown of this process. Low-income, minority, disabled and under-achieving students will be relegated to "public schools" as private schools will refuse to accept them. This is unfortunate for the students, because a 6-year-old is inherently unable to determine a course for his/her education... Under our current system, at least those children are guaranteed a shot despite their family background. Under the proposed system, I feel they will be at a disadvantage from the first day of Kindergarten.

I do agree that compulsory education, by its very nature, creates a significant amount of drag on the entire educational process. Students who do not want to be there should not be forced to participate.

Further, he increased privatization of post-secondary education (colleges and universities) has led to severe tuition inflation and a general devaluation of a college degree. I foresee the same problems occurring in K-12 education, in addition to a severe decrease in the quality and availability of services for students who currently benefit from them most.

This is not to say that I think public education should at all carry on in its current form, only that we have painted ourselves into a corner in terms of legislation by setting the legislative precedent that all students have a right to equal access to resources and that all students have a right to equal academic outcomes.

As I mentioned earlier, the flaw in the proposed system is that we are offering incentives for results alone rather than for the specific behaviors that lead to the desired results.

Under the proposed system, the "good schools" will simply bypass any student who poses any sort of challenge in terms of educating them. The "mediocre" schools will be catch-alls and the "public schools" will be forced to take the leftovers from both of the above...

So either way, your tax money is still going to be collected and spent, but under the new system we have the added problem of losing economies of scale.

Special Education is something that can definitely be outsourced for better results than what we currently have in public schools. Most public schools don't have the budget and aren't equipped to deal with special needs children.

Why do you say "relegated to public schools"? I don't see the logical progression in the decline of public education, with a voucher program. Which is what I assume we're talking about here.

Also, lower income students would still have the opportunity to receive an education that meets minimum standards set by law. So, I fail to see how going to a public school automatically translates into a sub-standard educational opportunity.

Colleges and Universities are another matter. Tuition rates are up because there is a glut of students, and tuition loans are relatively inexpensive. Especially when you can defer payment.

Also, "public" universities are only state subsidized and still receive their largest income from students and donors.

Public schools also bypass failing children. The only difference being that the public school still receives funding for the child, and creates a toxic atmosphere for other students.

The Prussian model Government Indoctrination system has failed. It is time to abandon the sinking ship.

I give Kudos to the Governor for moving in the right and proper direction.

 

[NovemberKilo]

Special Education is something that can definitely be outsourced for better results than what we currently have in public schools. Most public schools don't have the budget and aren't equipped to deal with special needs children.

Why do you say "relegated to public schools"? I don't see the logical progression in the decline of public education, with a voucher program. Which is what I assume we're talking about here.

Also, lower income students would still have the opportunity to receive an education that meets minimum standards set by law. So, I fail to see how going to a public school automatically translates into a sub-standard educational opportunity.

Colleges and Universities are another matter. Tuition rates are up because there is a glut of students, and tuition loans are relatively inexpensive. Especially when you can defer payment.

Also, "public" universities are only state subsidized and still receive their largest income from students and donors.

Public schools also bypass failing children. The only difference being that the public school still receives funding for the child, and creates a toxic atmosphere for other students.

The Prussian model Government Indoctrination system has failed. It is time to abandon the sinking ship.

I give Kudos to the Governor for moving in the right and proper direction.

I will agree with you that it is in the best interest of the vast majority of special education students to receive specialized instruction in a specialized setting. Whether or not that can/will be done economically under the new voucher system is another matter. I have no doubt they can receive better instruction, but I do doubt that instruction will be provided more economically in the private sector. Most special education teachers or teachers of record I know have enormous case loads... Far more than would be acceptable to most private school teachers.

I do say "relegated to public schools" because the voucher system is designed to do just that: eliminate public education entirely by marginalizing it. I grew up in a family that would have taken the voucher and spent some extra money to send me to a "good" charter/private school. They could afford it with the voucher, but not without. A family below the poverty line, however? They won't be able to afford an education for their children above the face value of the voucher - hence their children will be "relegated" to public schools filled with other children from impoverished families.

You don't think privatizing K-12 education will result in loan packages from banks becoming available for your child's K-12 education? I'm certain it will. It follows logically that the voucher will act as a subsidy - creating a "baseline" cost for education. Say the voucher is worth $10,000 and currently, a private school charges $10,000 per year in tuition. Next year, that school will charge $20,000. Given the voucher for half the cost, there will be a market for parents looking to "trade up" and send their kids to the higher-end schools despite not having adequate cash reserves to do so... Just like college students...

Again, attending a public school would become the "bare minimum standard by law." Any school going above and beyond that standard will charge more for its services.

I can't agree more that keeping failing/struggling students in the same classes as more advanced students creates a toxic environment, but I disagree that the steps Governor Daniels is taking are the wisest.

We may have to agree to disagree on that point.