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Shopping for a gun safe - Basics
- Thread starter MCgrease08
- Start date
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Buying a Safe...
Step 1: Call Mr. Johnson
Step 2: Order you Johnson
Step 3: Wait while your Johnson is made.
Step 4: Take delivery of your Johnson.
Step 5: Pay Mr. Johnson
Step 6: Fill your Johnson with guns 'n stuff.
Step 7: Repeat
Step 1: Call Mr. Johnson
Step 2: Order you Johnson
Step 3: Wait while your Johnson is made.
Step 4: Take delivery of your Johnson.
Step 5: Pay Mr. Johnson
Step 6: Fill your Johnson with guns 'n stuff.
Step 7: Repeat
To MCgrease08 (et alia),
It all depends upon what kind of threat you are protecting against. Almost any gun safe will help foil the "smash and grab" attack of some cokehead looking for a quick profit. The question is do you want to protect yourself against a real threat or a fire loss. The aforementioned cokehead may sell the information of your safe to someone who really does know how to get into one quickly.
You should ONLY spend money on an Underwriters Laboratory approved safe! They test them without concern of sales and with objective measurable criteria. As far as I am concerned you are taking greater risk with a safe that is not UL approved.
Here is one of the first videos I saw when researching on my own: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M
It got me to thinking, "If I am going to spend a LOT of money do I want to feel safe or BE safe?" My decision was to BE safe, at least as much as I could afford.
American Security, Liberty, and Brown safes are all excellent brands as far as my research could tell. You will spend more money on them but it won't just be to feel safe, it will be safe.
A few thoughts on the safe.
#1) A gun safe should be bolted to the floor. This keeps criminals from maximizing their ability to pry into it.
#2) It should not be under any heavy part of the house. Several safe owners have had fires where the fire makes the safe hot and malleable. When a heavy section of the home fell on the malleable safe it forced it open exposing the interior to heat thus destroying the contents.
#3) It should not be anywhere that water could get to it. Most safes are not waterproof and a minor to moderate flood could ruin the contents.
#4) NO plastic in the safe! A good UL tested safe is fireproof, NOT heatproof! Temperatures inside may reach 350 degrees right quick. Plastic melting on your valuables would be a bad thing. This would also affect digital products. (Liberty offers a small container that they claim(?) will protect electronic media, keeping the temperature at a maximum of 120 degrees.)
#5) Know that EVERY safe out there can be breached given enough time. Ergo, the safe is only a layer in your security. A good home alarm along with other measures will help. I do not mean to be callous but your dog can be shot in less than a second. The BG will not care a whit for Lassie. Don't count on a good guard dog to do anything but break your heart if your not there with him/her.
#6) Be aware of where you live and the response time of the local FD. I spoke with a fireman doing my research and the temperature in a burning building can skyrocket damn quick! If you live out in the sticks you will need greater fire protection than if you live in the middle of a municipality. This also applies to local LEO as well. The farther from town the greater the need for protection if a home alarm is used.
#7) As stated before it can get HOT inside the safe during a fire. Ammunition and heat do NOT mix! No ammo on the safe especially chambered!
#8) Always buy bigger than you need right now! You will grow into it as you think of personal papers and other valuables that need secured as much as your guns.
#9) Depending upon where you want to put the safe in the house measure the doors and know the measurements of the safe! I would have bought a model larger except that it wouldn't fit through an internal door. Imagine my disappointment had it arrived and I couldn't get it in the house!
Here are a few links that should help you ponder your needs.
Gun Safe Buying Tips - Buying Guide to Weapon Safes - Brown Safe Mfg.
Gun Safe Buying Guide: 10 Things to Consider When Buying a Gun Safe
Meilink TL30 Safe Burglary Test at UL - YouTube
How safes are made - AMSEC - YouTube
Good luck in your search!
Regards,
Doug
It all depends upon what kind of threat you are protecting against. Almost any gun safe will help foil the "smash and grab" attack of some cokehead looking for a quick profit. The question is do you want to protect yourself against a real threat or a fire loss. The aforementioned cokehead may sell the information of your safe to someone who really does know how to get into one quickly.
You should ONLY spend money on an Underwriters Laboratory approved safe! They test them without concern of sales and with objective measurable criteria. As far as I am concerned you are taking greater risk with a safe that is not UL approved.
Here is one of the first videos I saw when researching on my own: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBhOjWHbD6M
It got me to thinking, "If I am going to spend a LOT of money do I want to feel safe or BE safe?" My decision was to BE safe, at least as much as I could afford.
American Security, Liberty, and Brown safes are all excellent brands as far as my research could tell. You will spend more money on them but it won't just be to feel safe, it will be safe.
A few thoughts on the safe.
#1) A gun safe should be bolted to the floor. This keeps criminals from maximizing their ability to pry into it.
#2) It should not be under any heavy part of the house. Several safe owners have had fires where the fire makes the safe hot and malleable. When a heavy section of the home fell on the malleable safe it forced it open exposing the interior to heat thus destroying the contents.
#3) It should not be anywhere that water could get to it. Most safes are not waterproof and a minor to moderate flood could ruin the contents.
#4) NO plastic in the safe! A good UL tested safe is fireproof, NOT heatproof! Temperatures inside may reach 350 degrees right quick. Plastic melting on your valuables would be a bad thing. This would also affect digital products. (Liberty offers a small container that they claim(?) will protect electronic media, keeping the temperature at a maximum of 120 degrees.)
#5) Know that EVERY safe out there can be breached given enough time. Ergo, the safe is only a layer in your security. A good home alarm along with other measures will help. I do not mean to be callous but your dog can be shot in less than a second. The BG will not care a whit for Lassie. Don't count on a good guard dog to do anything but break your heart if your not there with him/her.
#6) Be aware of where you live and the response time of the local FD. I spoke with a fireman doing my research and the temperature in a burning building can skyrocket damn quick! If you live out in the sticks you will need greater fire protection than if you live in the middle of a municipality. This also applies to local LEO as well. The farther from town the greater the need for protection if a home alarm is used.
#7) As stated before it can get HOT inside the safe during a fire. Ammunition and heat do NOT mix! No ammo on the safe especially chambered!
#8) Always buy bigger than you need right now! You will grow into it as you think of personal papers and other valuables that need secured as much as your guns.
#9) Depending upon where you want to put the safe in the house measure the doors and know the measurements of the safe! I would have bought a model larger except that it wouldn't fit through an internal door. Imagine my disappointment had it arrived and I couldn't get it in the house!
Here are a few links that should help you ponder your needs.
Gun Safe Buying Tips - Buying Guide to Weapon Safes - Brown Safe Mfg.
Gun Safe Buying Guide: 10 Things to Consider When Buying a Gun Safe
Meilink TL30 Safe Burglary Test at UL - YouTube
How safes are made - AMSEC - YouTube
Good luck in your search!
Regards,
Doug
Lots of good info in Libertarian01's post. Just a couple of thoughts, though...
Plastic - What about polymer pistols, or guns with plastic grips or stocks? In other words, you can't completely avoid putting plastic in the safe.
Ammo - If you don't put ammo in a safe, where can you put it? If you leave it unsecured, it's accessible to any kids in the house, and easy pickings for a thief. If you lock it in a cheaper metal cabinet, it will take a thief a little longer. In either case, the heat will get to it faster than if it is in the safe, so any risk associated with the ammo getting hot will occur faster during a fire. There's only so much that you can do with ammo.
Has anyone installed a sprinkler system in their home?
Plastic - What about polymer pistols, or guns with plastic grips or stocks? In other words, you can't completely avoid putting plastic in the safe.
Ammo - If you don't put ammo in a safe, where can you put it? If you leave it unsecured, it's accessible to any kids in the house, and easy pickings for a thief. If you lock it in a cheaper metal cabinet, it will take a thief a little longer. In either case, the heat will get to it faster than if it is in the safe, so any risk associated with the ammo getting hot will occur faster during a fire. There's only so much that you can do with ammo.
Has anyone installed a sprinkler system in their home?
Great points Libertarian, especially about paying a little more to "be" safe, not just "feel" safe. It's amazing that some people want to stick tens of thousand dollars worth of guns, cash, jewelry, etc., in a single consolidated spot but don't want to spend more than a few hundred to protect it.
To LP1,
Regarding the "polymer pistols or guns w/ plastic grips"... I hear ya! I don't mean to be callous but we have to be aware of the threat and try to devise an appropriate response. The number I remember off the top of my head is up to 350 degrees in a very short time inside the safe. The safe is fire proof and not heat proof. Being aware of this may allow us to mitigate the damage by putting things that could melt together, that way they don't damage other contents. Or possibly avoiding putting them on the top shelf where they can drip onto other contents.
It is a modern world with plastic everywhere. Fortunately for me I have my C&R license and collect mostly old wooden military rifles so my risk is a little more limited, but it isn't gone. I have several pistols with grips and a CR-15 that could have issues.
Regarding the ammo a different dilemma. The ammunition may go "boom" no matter where you put it in a fire. If it is inside the safe next to the guns the damage potential increases. IF a large caliber goes off inside a chamber this could shoot through the top of the safe, thus letting in far more heat and potentially fire.
There is some proof that ammo that is unsecured in a fire is relatively harmless, at least compared to it being fired properly!
Here is a link to a video showing the threat of a projectile caused by fire: Firefighters Training: Video on Effects of Fire on Stored Ammunition
Here is a link on a special case that should help protect small plastic parts. It echos the 350 degrees of heat from a fire: http://www.amazon.com/SentrySafe-Schwab-Corp-Media-Cooler/product-reviews/B000LDN206
To MCgrease08,
EXACTLY! Salesmen sometimes don't like me. On big ticket items I do a ton of research on Consumer Reports, find a thingy I like, find the lowest price, and go there to buy it. I don't look at others, I do not consider other options, I do not want a sales speech. I want to pay my money and go away. I don't care how much they make or don't make. I buy things... I am not SOLD things!
I trust people who do NOT make money off of the sale. This puts Consumer Reports, JD Powers (for cars) and Underwriters Laboratories (for gun safes) at the top of my list. Silly videos of dropping safes or blowing them up or shooting them are just silly!
The sad reality is people are sold on this hype and emotional nonsense every single day! If they weren't the dealers wouldn't waste time with such stuff.
Do not misunderstand me - many salesmen and women are good decent folks who will not lie or intentionally try to take advantage of me. The problem is for many people in sales they are told what they need from their company, a company that has a vested financial interest in making a sale! They may not lie directly, but they may lie by omission, and it isn't even their fault! How many salesmen sold Pinto's to people killing them. There was no malice there. How many salesmen and women sold GM cars with the ignition switch failure killing their clients. I am sure they weren't in the loop of information because the company didn't want them in the loop (or a section of the company anyway.) The company and/or certain individuals had a vested interest in keeping this information private. This is why I far prefer third parties to do objective research.
We need to acknowledge that we all live within a budget. My safe is NOT the best. Mine is rated as a Residential Security Unit. I would have FAR preferred to buy a TL-30 or even a TL-60 safe but there was no way I could afford such a safe. I don't make that much money. I did the best I could within my financial means - BUT I did the research to make certain I was getting the best I could afford that would really work!
If you don't have a lot to spend, spend the most you can afford and get the best you can. Then, save up, sell the old model and buy a better model! Repeat until you have the best you can have. A simple but time consuming process.
Good luck to all!
Regards,
Doug
The polymer composition of pistols (example Glock) is a guarded secret. It is likely a glass filled Nylon material.
Nylon 6 melts aroumd 425-430 F
Nylon 6,6 melts around 505-510 F
I'd say if the safe is rated to 400 F, then a poly pistol should be intact.
It will be the low performance plastics that would melt such as the polyethylene/propylene ammo containers/holders
Nylon 6 melts aroumd 425-430 F
Nylon 6,6 melts around 505-510 F
I'd say if the safe is rated to 400 F, then a poly pistol should be intact.
It will be the low performance plastics that would melt such as the polyethylene/propylene ammo containers/holders
Just watch a segment on a TV gun show of attempting to pry open the door of a Liberty brand vs. the safes of 2 competitors- one had 3 - 1" bolts & the other had 4 bolts. Competitor #1 door was open in 19 seconds. Competitor #2 door took 39 seconds. The two "thieves" worked for 5 minutes ( the allotted maximum time) and did not get the door open of the Liberty. They appeared to actually be trying their best and were sweating & huffing & puffing after 5 minutes. This was basically an advertisement for Liberty and no, my current safe is not a Liberty. At the beginning they pointed out the construction differences - door thickness, frame construction, locking "mechanism", etc. I was sceptical at first but must admit that I was impressed.
