Rule reinforced on Sunday

[Burnsy]

Guns do this.

If you are new to guns, it is our fault as a gun culture that no one is telling you this.

Every time, every single time you load or unload a firearm it can discharge. It happens rarely but it can and DOES happen.

The horrific bull**** that you hear at some ranges or the Indy 1500 gun show of "jest unload it in the parking lot" shows you that others do not understand this basic firearms feature.

If you have to load or unload (to be safe don't jack with it), get a sand barrel, get a stack of phone books and duct tape them up, but treat the gun as if it will discharge. The gun only has one job, be ready for it.

No I was under the impression that if you keep your finger out of the tigger guard the gun cannot fire. What would cause this to happen? Is it considered a defect? I sure hope so.

 

[Burnsy]

Ok, just for clarity, I can only think of 3 rules:

1: treat every gun as if it is loaded
2: point every gun in a safe direction - always.
3: don't touch the trigger unless you mean to shoot.

Which one am I missing? Did I bundle 2 into one rule? is the 4th one so common-sense to me that I'm dismissing it as a rule?

I've honestly been too embarrassed to ask for the last 3 years I"ve been on INGO, but I've never known 4 rules.

4: Know your backstop.

Edit, should have read the rest of the thread before I posted, already answered several times.

 

[goinggreyfast]

So this example could be used as another reason to grip the slide when pressing the slide release? I was told early along to not just release the slide and let it slam shut. The fella who told me this said it was to keep from wearing the retention bar down. He instructed me to pull back on the slide a bit before pushing the slide release.

I guess if one made a conscious effort to make sure the slide didn't just slam back into place, it might lower the chances of an AD? I'm just guessing here though. Obviously there must be some kind of equipment malfunction. Would it be noticeable during the course of fire if the firing pin was not retracting back far enough?

 

[rockhopper46038]

Weird. I thought I posted here. Glad to see you were following the rules, 96. I would check to see if the firing pin spring was worn to the point that it would not keep the firing pin retracted, or if there was fouling in the pin channel that might have kept the pin forward resulting in a slam fire. Either of those are pretty easily fixed. Thanks for reminding us all again to be safe!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

No I was under the impression that if you keep your finger out of the tigger guard the gun cannot fire. What would cause this to happen?

This is incorrect. Guns can fire when fingers are no where near triggers, just ask Steve Malloy.

If you have this false idea then it is the fault of a gun culture who does not have enough respect for the guns they keep and bear. I cannot get over how people think parking lots or bedrooms are safe places to jack with guns. I alone have posted article after article on INGO of people shooting holes in property and people because they do not understand that firearms can do this.

Every time you load or unload the weapon can discharge: dirt, rocks in the spring, high primer, the basic design of firearms, especially those with an inertia firing pin. Next time you are at the range, load your AR-15, then unload it. Sling it and then pick the ejected round up. Look at it, see that dimple in the primer? That's where the firing pin rests on the AR-15.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

So this example could be used as another reason to grip the slide when pressing the slide release? I was told early along to not just release the slide and let it slam shut. The fella who told me this said it was to keep from wearing the retention bar down. He instructed me to pull back on the slide a bit before pushing the slide release.

I guess if one made a conscious effort to make sure the slide didn't just slam back into place, it might lower the chances of an AD? I'm just guessing here though. Obviously there must be some kind of equipment malfunction. Would it be noticeable during the course of fire if the firing pin was not retracting back far enough?

You always want the slide to 'slam' home when you are loading it. Releasing a slide on an empty chamber is what can cause some guns to exibit excessive wear.

Riding the slide or bolt home can lead to an out of battery condition where the gun is inoperable. The likelyhood of a slam fire is much less than a weapon disabled due to an out of battery malfunction.

 

[Burnsy]

This is incorrect. Guns can fire when fingers are no where near triggers, just ask Steve Malloy.

If you have this false idea then it is the fault of a gun culture who does not have enough respect for the guns they keep and bear. I cannot get over how people think parking lots or bedrooms are safe places to jack with guns. I alone have posted article after article on INGO of people shooting holes in property and people because they do not understand that firearms can do this.

Every time you load or unload the weapon can discharge: dirt, rocks in the spring, high primer, the basic design of firearms, especially those with an inertia firing pin. Next time you are at the range, load your AR-15, then unload it. Sling it and then pick the ejected round up. Look at it, see that dimple in the primer? That's where the firing pin rests on the AR-15.

I was aware that attempting to load/unload a firearm could case the firearm to discharge. I thought the reason was due to possible human error IE finger near trigger while trying to unload the thing etc.

I was not aware that a firearm could malfunction by discharging without human error. This is obviously information I should have known and is an error on my part, not the gun community as a whole. I am responsible for my education not others.

That said I do not own or have immediate access to an AR-15 but do carry a Glock 21. I have looked at the primers on chambered but unfired rounds while checking for set back after cleaning and have not noticed a dimple. I mentioned to the OP that there is something wrong with his gun as I thought the cause was a rare malfunction.

Thank you for teaching me that the malfuction may not be so rare.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Burnsy, talk to INGOer Wolfeman. He had a slam fire with a Glock.

 

[DadOfFour]

I had an old 70's series 1911 that would slam fire about half the time. Would have just sold it, but it was my Grandad's gun, it's been retired, got a nice case for it and it sits on my Dad's mantel along with Grandpa's medals from WWII.

 

[Ash]

I witnessed the same issue a few years ago as the original poster. It was with a friends newly aquired (brand new, just had ran a couple of magazines of ammunition through it) Ruger P90. I'm glad he takes the 4 rules seriously also.

Cheers

 

[96firephoenix]

You always want the slide to 'slam' home when you are loading it. Releasing a slide on an empty chamber is what can cause some guns to exibit excessive wear.

Riding the slide or bolt home can lead to an out of battery condition where the gun is inoperable. The likelyhood of a slam fire is much less than a weapon disabled due to an out of battery malfunction.

This is what I was told by my uncle, hence why I was doing that on his guns.

I tried to be gentle on his 1911... got it out of battery. Let it slam, and it went home right every time.

I alone have posted article after article on INGO of people shooting holes in property and people because they do not understand that firearms can do this.

I already "knew" this, but its a whole other thing seeing it in person at the end of your arms

At this point, the best guess is that it was a high primer. My uncle reloads, and its possible that he didn't get one seated properly.

 

[Stschil]

i had something similar happen with a Mak 90. had just gotten, cleaned it, took it apart to see how it worked got all the cosmoline or whatever that stuff is. checked the barrel for obstructions blah blah

shot a magazine..... didnt realize that the bold doesnt stay open on them when your done with the mag. i pulled the bolt back several times.... nothing. tried looking down in there to see if a round was in just wanted to be safe... couldnt really see. pointed the gun down range and pulled the trigger nothing. ejected magazine and popped another one in....... BOOM

never fired it again and got rid of it

jake

I could be completely wrong about this, so if I am, please someone correct me.

I believe the Mac90 fires from an open bolt position, much like the Uzi, M60 and others. If you inserted a fresh magazine and pulled the trigger with the bolt opened, I think it was operating correctly.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I already "knew" this, but its a whole other thing seeing it in person at the end of your arms

Dude, people argue with me when I post stories of when guns fire without triggers being depressed.

Maybe that's why they argue with me, it has never happened to them thus it has never, ever happened in the history of firearms.

"By far the best proof is experience" Sir Francis Bacon.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I could be completely wrong about this, so if I am, please someone correct me.

I believe the Mac90 fires from an open bolt position, much like the Uzi, M60 and others. If you inserted a fresh magazine and pulled the trigger with the bolt opened, I think it was operating correctly.

You are thinking of an early Mac 10/11. A Mak 90 is an AK variant.

 

[Stschil]

You are thinking of an early Mac 10/11. A Mak 90 is an AK variant.

See, I knew I was probably wrong

Thanks for the assist, Ben.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

See, I knew I was probably wrong

Thanks for the assist, Ben.

 

[Dirtebiker]

The forth is really for hunting and real world situations, if you are going to the range with known back stops, it's kind of a mute point.

And moot also!