Purchasing LTCH database answer

[lashicoN]

Hey everyone, a few people have been asking what it takes to actually purchase the IN state database where they keep track of all the LTCH holders. I e-mailed the state twice and asked them how I could purchase the database and told them I wanted it to see what kind of information was on the database. Here is the response I got, several days after I sent the e-mail.

Sir,

To answer your first email, the database in question has the fields that I list below. A copy of the database costs $32 payable to the state of Indiana. If you want to purchase a copy just to know what it says about you, since you have no hearings, comments, or reject reason—I believe you know your name and address--I just told you and saved you $32. I have a small staff, this takes time, and I ask you not to order the database for the reason listed. A bill just passed a legislative committee to make this confidential. Previous to all this publicity, we would receive a request from a few news services a year and a couple of businesses that believe licensees would like their product. Also, FYI to receive a response to a generic email address this quickly is unusual in my opinion.

Lt. Jerry A. Berkey
Indiana State Police
Records Division, Rm 302
100 N. Senate Avenue--IGCN
Indianapolis, IN 46204
317-232-8263
MW2498

Even though it was sent via e-mail, I couldn't help but hear his snide, whiny tone. Apparently, because a state bill makes it past committee, it automatically turns it into law. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe that's the actual case, rather he wanted me to believe that. But, I have to put myself in his shoes, he DOES have a small staff, and it does take so much time to cash my check and mail me a burned copy of a disc. I've burned several data discs in my time for backup reasons, it isn't that much of a hassle, especially when it's your job. I don't understand why they have to be so rude about this. Was it our idea as LTCH holders to make a database available to the public? No. So why get so "ugh, thanks for wasting my time!" about it? I want to give the state money! On my own free will! How are they not jumping up and down with glee at this?

 

[Field King]

 

[critter592]

I'm sure you're not the only one trying this and this database isn't the only one he gets requests for. So unless we're actually requesting to purchase this database let's leave him alone. Maybe he's on our side and doesn't want the names and addresses sent out. Just like posts on an internet forum you can mistake the tone of voice from reading words.

 

[lashicoN]

I'm certainly not advocating harassing the man. I am actually trying to purchase the database. Perhaps he is one of us, who knows. But I can't really see that when he's fine with a few "news services" purchasing it from the state. To me, and this is just my opinion based on his reply, he is just sick of being bothered about the database from us LTCH holders. He probably has had plenty of people just call in or e-mail not wanting to purchase the database, but I made it very clear that I did want to purchase it and he replied sarcastically by saying "you know your name and address - there I saved you $32" It just irked me and wasn't needed, in my opinion.

 

[jedi]

He and his office have had many, many people call since the New Paper Incident regarding the purchase of the database. Yes is comments may have been a bit unprofessional but I imagine he has had to reply to many, many "I what to buy the DB" request in the past as well & someone in those many replies he (being human) is bound to snap. Plus I'm sure he is doing everything within his limited powers to stop the flow of the DB to the general public. Once you have it there is nothing stopping you from making copies and handing them out freely or uploading it to the net.

Have YOU actually sent your $32 yet?

 

[lashicoN]

No, in my first e-mail I asked how to go about paying for the database and why I wanted it. That was the reply I received. I sent him a reply thanking him for his timely reply (which I meant, he didn't have to reply to me at all) and asking him if it would suffice if I sent a money order to his office with a note containing my address and the reason for the money order. I'm not just going to mail $32 to his office and then have him tell me "oh, sorry, wrong office. I'll send your money back" I am going to purchase it though. I honestly want to find out if it is just our names and addresses these "new organizations" have purchased or if it contains other things like: age, sex, hair color, or anything else we filled out on the application.

 

[jedi]

LashicoN other INGO members have already purchased the DB (treches I think is one of them). Can't recall off hand but there have been other post here which has confirmed that it included everything you put on the license form (name, dob, sex, height, weight, etc..)

 

[MTC]

...let's leave him alone. Maybe he's on our side and doesn't want the names and addresses sent out. Just like posts on an internet forum you can mistake the tone of voice from reading words.

Plus I'm sure he is doing everything within his limited powers to stop the flow of the DB to the general public. Once you have it there is nothing stopping you from making copies and handing them out freely or uploading it to the net.

I honestly want to find out if it is just our names and addresses these "new organizations" have purchased or if it contains other things like: age, sex, hair color, or anything else we filled out on the application

There have been several posts in the last few months confirming this through inquiries made by BoR, techres, and others.
Copied from malik's HT Dec 1st online chat:

QUESTION: Why do they release the information in such detail, including the street or road?

why does anyone but the state police or other law enforcement agency need to know who has a carry permit? Do you have a carry permit, and do you want your's listed if you do? thanks...

joe, orleans

MICHAEL MALIK: Joe,

Thanks for your questions. No, I do not have a carry permit and, therefore, would not appear in the database.

As far as why people need to know this information, I'm not sure. You'd have to ask people who searched the database why they did so. I know I searched my street name to see how many people on my street are registered to carry a handgun in public or to a range or hunting area.

The Indiana State Police handgun permit database contains detailed information, including name, street address, race, gender, height, etc. The ISP has to release the entire database to me because the entire database is subject to an Indiana public records request. If there was something in there the ISP couldn't release because it was protected by another state or federal law, then the ISP would've only given me the parts of the database that were subject to public records requests. If you think this information should not be public record, I would say you can contact your state representative and ask them to sponsor a law making it not a public record.

And so we have.

 

[360]

The funny part is the ISP's relent to give them out to private individuals, but will release with no qualms to the newspapers. They are the MOST dangerous with them.

 

[jsharmon7]

Am I the only one who has a problem with businesses being able to buy this list in order to solicit gun owners? How about we list the names and private addresses of other groups so that businesses can solicit them by mail? I don't understand how exercising a state given and federally given right means that my name and address are added to a list for sale to whoever has $32.

 

[jedi]

jsharmon7,

It was an "oversight" of the politician's that gave us the "handgun license" for Indiana. Many rejoyed when we got life-time licenses when in fact we should have/and still should be working for NOT having any need to get a permit/license to carry period!

What part of "not infringe" do they not understand. Look at VT? No permit/license needed and VT has the lowest crime rate in the country? Hum...

 

[Bill of Rights]

LashicoN,

From contact I've had with Lt. Berkey, he is VERY much against giving out this information and if he had the power to do so, he clearly would. His comment about providing it to a few newspapers and businesses a year vs. to you, I think you took in the wrong context. I read what he said to say "We only had a few requests a year (that happened to be in those groups) and providing a few a year is not a big stress on my staff.", while you seem to have read it to say, "We sold it to newspapers (of which there are only a few) and they can have it. I'm going to hassle you, though."

Also, on his point about, "There, I just saved you $32.00", may have been a bit flippant, but I think his main goal is to keep his staff cranking out the LTCHs and removing them from that tiny percentage who have them suspended or revoked each year.

I think also that his point about the bill passing out of committee tells two things: 1) he is hoping to be able to stop giving out the database soon, and 2) He's watching these bills VERY closely... Both points lead me to the conclusion that he's a gun guy. The rest of my contact with him has added to that that he's doing whatever he can to protect gun owners and gun rights in Indiana. Let's not forget that the enormous push for these bills to be introduced came from the fact that the B'ton HT published the list and Lt. Berkey told us how easy the list was to obtain. It is his action that started this ball rolling, and it will be his action that ultimately leads to the bill passing into law.

I can see how you got what you got from him. I request that you consider the information from others who've maybe had more contact with this gentleman than you've had.

Blessings,
Bill