Private Message received from fellow church member about carrying at church.

[theweakerbrother]

I posted a link to the black man carrying the AR-15 in Arizona. Because I have friends all across the political board, the post received a lot of arguing between my two camps of friends. I mostly stayed out of it until one young woman from our church said that she would never let her family near them. I mentioned to her that almost every time she's seen me socially, it has been with a loaded firearm.

To You,

I wanted to respond to your comment about hoping I wouldn't avoid contact with you or your wife. I'll be honest, I really hate guns and It makes me uncomfortable knowing that you carry one. I just don't understand it. Columbus is one of the safest cities in the US (ranked 11th i think), so why do you feel the need to carry a weapon? I don't mean to attack you on this subject; i just don't understand. We are obviously coming from two different worlds of though, probably very different backgrounds; I wouldn't carry a gun if i lived in the most dangerous city in the world. I don't think we will ever win fighting violence with violence, just like we can't fight sin with more sin. Guns (hand guns and big assault weapons more so than guns used for hunting) seem so evil to me. Their purpose is either to harm, to intimidate, or to protect through the intimidation of harm...all of these seem evil to me. (let me clarify that i don't think that you are evil, i'm just trying to explain my feelings towards guns).
I don't know you well, but my impression of you is that your a very kind and intelligent person. I'm not going to quit attending our church b/c your carrying a gun, but you should know that it will always make me uncomfortable. I also realize that you may not be the only person there carrying a gun; what makes some people feel safer makes other people feel endangered.


It's late and i assume i'm to the point of repetitive rambling, so i'm going to stop. Hope your doing well and that you don't experience too much discomfort from these last treatments. Our prayers are always with you.

peace,
J

I figured I would let the fine community here read what I had to say before I replied. Is this bringing too much personal stuff to the forum?

In hindsight, I should not have probably mentioned that I carry. I'm just trying to preach the Second Gospel of the right to keep and bear arms.

This is my rough draft reply to her:

Wow! Thanks for the long post. Your hatred for guns isn't an uncommon emotional response to have. I won't hold your stance on guns against you nor will I ever think of it as something where people should stop communicating or attending the same church. The majority of my friends don't own gun nor do they think them to be necessary tools. Some are very anti gun. This does not legitimize my claims posted in the thread, but it does legitimize my claim that it isn't a hardline stance for me to demand that everyone I communicate with be or act the same.

Columbus is a very safe city. It is one of the reasons I've always loved it and next to my friends, safety was probably the thing I missed most about Columbus. Fortunately, my wonderful wife likes Columbus just about as much as I do (maybe more) and we were able to move back to Columbus last year. I do realize that it probably isn't as nice as we think it is as far as crime rates go. Drugs have a nasty stronghold on far too many people in Columbus. Some would argue otherwise but with drugs often comes the criminal mindset. This isn't a condemnation of someone who did drugs or one against those who do drugs that are illegal for no justifiable reason. My point is that meth and the behavior that is birthed from its use has people doing things that they normally would not do.

I carry a gun because I see it as an extension of love for my family and friends. I'm not a super hero. I don't actively look for opportunities to put myself in a situation where I would use it. I've drawn my firearm defensively one time in the 4 or 5 years I've carried it. It was while I was in TN and the largest black bear I've ever seen walked up to us.

I do not go out and look for trouble. Carrying a gun is a huge responsibility. It prevents me from entering into a situation that I know could escalate. If I'm in traffic, I'm less likely to flip someone off. If someone bumps into me, I'm the one who apologies. If I get the stinkeye, I look away. But especially after surgery... after having surgery, going through a few rounds of chemo and hopefully having ANOTHER surgery has made my body very, very weak. If I needed to protect an unknown innocent, friend or family or even myself.

The last reason, and I use it last because people, as a whole, are much more interested in existential or experiential stories and think that I am taking a political jab at them. I also carry a gun because the letter of the law says that I can. This is a fairly heated topic and usually makes the person against firearms feel antagonized or frustrated but the 2nd Amendment allow me to carry. This has also been reinterpret by Indiana State law and approved. I don't know if you watch much in news/politics, but our discussion is close to what the Supreme Court discussed in DC Vs. Heller about firearm rights/ownership.

I'm always willing to discuss this with you or your husband... or anyone, really! If at any time you and your husband would ever be interested in shooting guns from smaller hunting calibers to larger rifles or shotguns, feel free to let me know and we'll take you to a shooting range. I know that you said that you're afraid of them. If you ever want to not be afraid of them, just ask! I'm willing to bet that the police officer at church would be willing to do the same thing.

It boils down to what may make us philosophically and completely different. "I'd rather have one and never need to use it than to not have one and need it." Call it the Worst Case Scenerio preparation or it may be the former boy scout in me. "Always be prepared!"

I could also be a big dumb wild-red-beared hillbilly.

What do you guys think?

 

[indoorsoccerfrea]

looks great to me, haha the last line is the best though...
logic and calm discussions usually help things move along...

 

[hotfarmboy1]

I think you did a pretty good job in your response letter.

 

[jmiller676]

Bookmarked to keep the ideas. Rep'd good job and good luck!

 

[dkc485]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the apostles say something about self defense? I believe it was "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" or something to that nature.

 

[ATM]

I'd rather have one and never use it than to have one and never need it.

I think you mean to say something like "I'd rather have one and never need to use it than to not have one and need it."

The whole response is excellent, though. Very well written.

 

[hotfarmboy1]

I think you mean to say something like "I'd rather have one and never need to use it than to not have one and need it."

The whole response is excellent, though. Very well written.

true I forgot to point out that typo as well. Nice catsh ATM!

 

[antsi]

Pretty good reply.

I think it's important to avoid ranting and hollering at these people. She's probably never seen a gun before, except on TV, where guns are not tools but rather magical talismans of violence. If you yell and holler at her, it only reinforces her prejudices. If you're pleasant and polite and frame your responses in terms of loving your family, it's a lot harder for her to just tune you out. Also, good move on the range invite.

 

[ATM]

true I forgot to point out that typo as well. Nice catsh ATM!

I think you meant to say "catch."

Otherwise, nicely written.





J/K

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Nice job! In simple, short, to the point terms I love this quote from Jeff Cooper:

"If violent crime is to be curbed, it is
only the intended victim who can do
it. The felon does not fear the police,
and he fears neither judge nor jury.
Therefore what he must be taught to
fear is his victim." -

Jeff Cooper

 

[Bill of Rights]

Well-reasoned, thoughtful responses, with a wee bit of probably undeserved self-deprecation... Nice.

The most important point of your reply is the range invite. Education, I think, is THE key to turning the tide, whether that education is in real, true American history, in firearm use, in what is colloquially called "backwoods knowledge", or in that rare case, knowledge of self that can only be obtained when one is battle-tested, though the battle is sometimes against a lone criminal, sometimes against a whole foreign host.

"There are no atheists in foxholes", and "Conservatives are liberals who have been mugged", and that latter gives a tiny inkling of what I mean. I cannot and hope to never know what it is like to actively kill another human being, but I have been present at the end of far more lives than I would like to have been. My profession is the protection and saving of life and I have seen as a result a few uplifting experiences. I have fought death with my own hands, and believe me, I take the battle very personally. This will not give me pause in saving my own life or that of someone close to me, I hope, but I will not be disarmed and prevented from having even a chance. To do so would be akin to asking me to go to work in an ambulance with no fuel, no oxygen, no equipment, and with my hands tied behind my back.

I think that that fight will come long before the one for which I have trained and practiced, and of which in a mix of anticipation and dread, I carry.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[HandK]

Too many Christan's will throw up the ten commandments, where God said "thou shall not Kill" But it was written "Thou shall not murder" it was changed to not kill by men, in the original Hebrew it was not murder, God does not want you to give up your right to self defense.

 

[jclark]

Great post!! I also have a few anti gun friends. I have also invited each one to the range. Just because we carry does not mean we walk through life with a chip on our shoulder.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I think I'd make it a point that a firearm is just another inanimate object... Just like a tire iron, baseball bat, screwdriver, hammer, steak knife etc etc. All the above are inanimate objects too, but also ones that are used by criminals. Why not think these things are evil, too? That it is a purely emotional response to tag an inanimate object as "evil"...it's a physical impossibility!

I also might make it a point that not all violence is "wrong" or "evil". Perhaps bring up the situation about someone attempting harm on her or her children...how would that harm be stopped? "Oh no, I can't hit them because hitting them would be violence and violence is bad!". Heck no, you'd do everything in your physical power to keep that harm from occurring in the first place (or from going further). You're using RIGHTEOUS violence to combat and hopefully overcome violence being perpetrated against you. Not all violent behavior is bad!

-J-

 

[trophyhunter]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the apostles say something about self defense? I believe it was "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" or something to that nature.

Luke 22:36, link to various translations:Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

 

[jontheturboguy]

Sounds like we need to take a young lady out shooting at Atterburry Range so she can climb out of here little Marxist False Hope Safe Feeling Bubble.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Well written, concise and logical while still addressing the emotional issues. Saved for future use.

 

[Boilers]

I would just say that no opinions otherwise will change your approach to YOUR FREEDOM in this country. And you would never think to change HER FREEDOM, whatever it means to her.

 

[concrete dog]

i think you put it out there nice and neat.her point is her opinion and you did a good job explaining your position.

 

[matthock]

Luke 22:36, link to various translations:Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

I was curious about this - I've read Luke, but I guess that part didn't click with me at the time. I found a link that goes into a bit more detail about the topic of the Bible and self defense that gives a good explanation. The Bible and self-defense