Observation on pistol mags

[jlw]

I assisted Tom Givens with a Rangemaster Instructor Development Course this weekend in Texas. We were are Karl Rehn's range near Giddings, which I am told is the North Central Plains geographic region.

The sandy dirt on the range choked numerous Sig 320 mags to death. One Magpul G mag briefly succumbed. The only OEM Glock mag to have trouble was a pre-2004 stamped “LE” mag. I don’t think this really says much about a carry pistol as you won’t be repeatedly dropping your mags in the sand while walking about, but those Sig mags just kept failing while the others ran.

 

[cedartop]

I saw that on FB. Very interesting. BTW was that one of your guys that was high shooter? I am amazed at what some of those guys are doing with the Casino Drill.

 

[jlw]

I saw that on FB. Very interesting. BTW was that one of your guys that was high shooter? I am amazed at what some of those guys are doing with the Casino Drill.

Yes, he's one of mine. He's still several seconds behind the agency and class record though.

 

[cedartop]

You really do a good job with those guys. It would be nice if more departments were trained anywhere close to your standard. Is it tough to accomplish?

 

[jlw]

You really do a good job with those guys. It would be nice if more departments were trained anywhere close to your standard. Is it tough to accomplish?

Thank you for the kind words. It has taken some time, but we have made a culture shift towards high shooting performance being expected. I still have a couple of hold out naysayers, but we're getting there.

The first step was that I had to convince people that high qualification scores was not the measure of "good". This was not a fault on their part; it was just a realization of what good is. Then I had to relieve a couple of instructors from teaching duties just because they were not getting on board, but what got the ball rolling was getting some of the other instructors exposed to the Rangemaster material and letting them see it themselves and getting them to buy into it. Then they helped spread it through the agency and have sought out more material. Hosting courses has allowed me to get our instructors through some quality training beyond what the state offers, and it has paid off. We're starting to work the line level guys into open enrollment classes now.

 

[rhino]

Thank you for the kind words. It has taken some time, but we have made a culture shift towards high shooting performance being expected. I still have a couple of hold out naysayers, but we're getting there.

The first step was that I had to convince people that high qualification scores was not the measure of "good". This was not a fault on their part; it was just a realization of what good is. Then I had to relieve a couple of instructors from teaching duties just because they were not getting on board, but what got the ball rolling was getting some of the other instructors exposed to the Rangemaster material and letting them see it themselves and getting them to buy into it. Then they helped spread it through the agency and have sought out more material. Hosting courses has allowed me to get our instructors through some quality training beyond what the state offers, and it has paid off. We're starting to work the line level guys into open enrollment classes now.

When I've observed police officers in training, it's almost always obvious when they have sought training outside of their agency (either of their own accord, or as a policy of their agency). I think one of the biggest reasons who a lot of police officers shoot poorly and have poor gun handling and manipulation skills is because all of their training is in-house. They are never exposed to what they actually could achieve if they were shown different and better methods.

The Boone Co Sheriff's Dept (Indiana) and surrounding agencies are a good example. They all get a significant amount of training from the big name instructors who come to their range every year, usually alongside the private citizens who avail themselves of the same opportunity. It shows. For example, Louis Awerbuck used to spend the entire month of August there teaching a variety of his classes.

 

[cedartop]

Back on topic for a minute, any observations as to why the Sig mags might have been failing? I mean I assume because of the sand, but why them and not the others? We're there any M&P mags present?

 

[rhino]

Are P320 mags made by Checkmate in the USA or by MecGar in Italy?

 

[jlw]

Back on topic for a minute, any observations as to why the Sig mags might have been failing? I mean I assume because of the sand, but why them and not the others? We're there any M&P mags present?

There were several M&Ps in the class. They didn't have a single problem.

 

[jlw]

When I've observed police officers in training, it's almost always obvious when they have sought training outside of their agency (either of their own accord, or as a policy of their agency). I think one of the biggest reasons who a lot of police officers shoot poorly and have poor gun handling and manipulation skills is because all of their training is in-house. They are never exposed to what they actually could achieve if they were shown different and better methods.

The Boone Co Sheriff's Dept (Indiana) and surrounding agencies are a good example. They all get a significant amount of training from the big name instructors who come to their range every year, usually alongside the private citizens who avail themselves of the same opportunity. It shows. For example, Louis Awerbuck used to spend the entire month of August there teaching a variety of his classes.

My initial agency had a decent firearms training program when considering content; we just didn't get enough training dates to truly lock in the skills. We were encouraged to go to the state training facility, which I did as often as possible as did a number of coworkers, but we just couldn't get there with enough frequency to truly lock in the skills. It does require some personal investment to get the trigger time needed. I delved in to match shooting for a while, and I saw significant improvement, but the matches were my trigger time. When I gave up matches and started concentrating on training classes, I saw another jump in my skill level. I enjoy the weekend classes much more than I did the matches.