Obamacare Is Constitutional

[hornadylnl]

I'll expound on the notion that we need to change the hearts and minds of the recipient class to know and embrace true liberty.

How are suicide bombers made? Stick with me here. Generally, very young children are trained to believe their perceived enemy is the most supreme evil in the world. From the time they learn to recognize their own name, they are taught the evils of their enemies and that one day they are going to destroy them. It doesn't matter what truth or reality is because everything they've ever been taught is truth and reality to them. Their entire world view was force fed to them from the time they could crawl.

You have a few who grew up with a somewhat normal life but were jilted by something and now want to fight. Sometimes those people can be reached by reasoning with them if they choose to look back on their old world view and see the real truth.

What we have now are entire generations that have never had real liberty to give shape to their world view. If they can't comprehend real liberty, how will you convince them that what has been ingrained in them from birth is wrong?

 

[nawainwright]

I'll expound on the notion that we need to change the hearts and minds of the recipient class to know and embrace true liberty.

How are suicide bombers made? Stick with me here. Generally, very young children are trained to believe their perceived enemy is the most supreme evil in the world. From the time they learn to recognize their own name, they are taught the evils of their enemies and that one day they are going to destroy them. It doesn't matter what truth or reality is because everything they've ever been taught is truth and reality to them. Their entire world view was force fed to them from the time they could crawl.

You have a few who grew up with a somewhat normal life but were jilted by something and now want to fight. Sometimes those people can be reached by reasoning with them if they choose to look back on their old world view and see the real truth.

What we have now are entire generations that have never had real liberty to give shape to their world view. If they can't comprehend real liberty, how will you convince them that what has been ingrained in them from birth is wrong?

This is the way it is. Be it N. Korea, Iran, or Democrats (heck, in a news story about the Dem's leaving the party the Alabama Democrat party released a statement including "The Republican members of the legislature have put on a full-court press to push all white Democrats to change parties after the election." )

Read more: State Lawmakers Bolt Democratic Party After Election Day - FoxNews.com

Point is, any time you want to make a change in a society you have to start at the bottom. Thats how we got in the mess we're in, its how we get out. We've raised generations that believe more and more govt is needed to care for them and we have to undo that by redoing the system. Just as in 1935 people were promised money they didn't earn or deserve we have to make a choice to change that. If you were born after 19xx then you will never receive SS (not that you will anyway, but it would actually be said) and when the last person who was born before 19xx dies, its over. All money raised by the govt during that time that does not go toward benefits goes to paying down the national debt. SOLVED.....sorta....

 

[hornadylnl]

Who is left to teach the current generations? Who knows what liberty is any more? Most gun owners lean to conservative but the large majority of INGO loves government. Leave my guns alone but regulate his bedroom isn't going to cut it. We must eliminate statism in every facet. We can't tell cancer you can have my kidney but leave my lungs alone. We cannot coexist with socialism any better than we can cancer. Almost all Americans are in love with some level of big government. Who are they to teach anyone about liberty?

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Who is left to teach the current generations? Who knows what liberty is any more? Most gun owners lean to conservative but the large majority of INGO loves government. Leave my guns alone but regulate his bedroom isn't going to cut it. We must eliminate statism in every facet. We can't tell cancer you can have my kidney but leave my lungs alone. We cannot coexist with socialism any better than we can cancer. Almost all Americans are in love with some level of big government. Who are they to teach anyone about liberty?

I disagree. The vast majority doesn't hate government nor believe it evil. Government is necessary to a free and sovereign state. The acceptance of that reality is not love for government. It's a strawman argument.

I keep hearing the arguments about bedrooms. Just what bedroom activities are being regulated, other than keeping kids away from adults?

 

[nawainwright]

I agree, there aren't many who believe that liberty should extend past their own front door. They want the freedoms they want but only for themselves. It's the same condition that will never get an entitlement program cut. "CUT GOVT PROGRAMS!! ....but not mine." But someone has to try, if we don't then we don't survive. Millions of people have died the world over trying to do just that, speak up against the system for freedom. I frankly don't give a rats petute about whether the govt should legalize gay marriage or restrict driving ages or govern your food source......because they have no business doing ANY of those things. The govt should exist to protect me from outside sources that wish to take my property/liberty/family as well as to punish people for infringing on those same things locally. Thats it. It has no business doing anything else.

I talk to as many people as I can, I plead with the ignorant....maybe one day we can change it. If they decide to lock me up for it, then I will happily go. I will stand for my freedom.

 

[hornadylnl]

I disagree. The vast majority doesn't hate government nor believe it evil. Government is necessary to a free and sovereign state. The acceptance of that reality is not love for government. It's a strawman argument.

I keep hearing the arguments about bedrooms. Just what bedroom activities are being regulated, other than keeping kids away from adults?

Many INGOers love the government for confiscating wealth for the favorite sports team.

Does the government not regulate the bedrooms of soldiers, gay or straight? I'm less concerned with the government saying who I can't marry than I am the government being in the marriage business in the first place. I don't want legalized gay marriage sanctioned by the state. I want marriage to between those entering it. Then they can draw up whatever type of contractual agreement they want together.

Many INGOers have supported a multitude of government programs or interference.

 

[machete]

Who is left to teach the current generations? Who knows what liberty is any more? Most gun owners lean to conservative but the large majority of INGO loves government. Leave my guns alone but regulate his bedroom isn't going to cut it. We must eliminate statism in every facet. We can't tell cancer you can have my kidney but leave my lungs alone. We cannot coexist with socialism any better than we can cancer. Almost all Americans are in love with some level of big government. Who are they to teach anyone about liberty?

repped and in awe of such a greaty post

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Many INGOers love the government for confiscating wealth for the favorite sports team.

Does the government not regulate the bedrooms of soldiers, gay or straight? I'm less concerned with the government saying who I can't marry than I am the government being in the marriage business in the first place. I don't want legalized gay marriage sanctioned by the state. I want marriage to between those entering it. Then they can draw up whatever type of contractual agreement they want together.

Many INGOers have supported a multitude of government programs or interference.

I'll bet if you ran a poll most ingoers would disagree about the sports team.

The government doesn't regulate anything about a soldier's bedroom. They control everything about a soldier's existence. You necessarily cede most rights when you are in the military. I spent 6 years on active duty and 14 in the reserve. It's the way it is. You know that when you go in. Not a suprise, so should not be a big deal to comply.

 

[hornadylnl]

I'll bet if you ran a poll most ingoers would disagree about the sports team.

The government doesn't regulate anything about a soldier's bedroom. They control everything about a soldier's existence. You necessarily cede most rights when you are in the military. I spent 6 years on active duty and 14 in the reserve. It's the way it is. You know that when you go in. Not a suprise, so should not be a big deal to comply.

You've obviously not read any of the colts threads on here then.

Ya, I think it's a great thing to strip liberty from those that insure it.

 

[Fargo]

I'll bet if you ran a poll most ingoers would disagree about the sports team.

The government doesn't regulate anything about a soldier's bedroom. They control everything about a soldier's existence. You necessarily cede most rights when you are in the military. I spent 6 years on active duty and 14 in the reserve. It's the way it is. You know that when you go in. Not a suprise, so should not be a big deal to comply.

This^. You know the rules when you sign up. It is part of your...wait for it...CONTRACT that you give up certain rights. If you don't want to then don't sign the contract.

The idea you can't enter that contract consensually is actually antithetical to freedom...

Ya, I think it's a great thing to strip liberty from those that insure it.

Servicemember's rights aren't stripped, they are voluntarily given up. It is a SACRIFICE, something damn few in this country even remember the meaning of. There is no conscription today, if you don't want to cede those rights then don't sign up.

Putting the sacrifices of servicemembers in terms of "stripped" demeans everything they have given up to serve and protect this country.

Joe

 

[Expat]

The only way this is going to be reversed is if we somehow took back control of the schools from the left wing union radicals. These people poison our children's minds and convince them their parents are racist bigots if they believe differently. Hopefully the upcoming bankruptcy of most all state and local (probably not the behemoth as they just print money now) government entities will help with this.

 

[Bendrx]

in fact,,,some uninsured guy hitting your car affects a lot less people than you getting sick...

If some uninsured guy hits you, then why wouldn't your unisured motorist insurace cover it? Most policies to my knowledge have that built in. There for if some clown without insurance hits your car while it's parked it's still on you if it isn't covered. You want to protect yourself, you buy health insurance. You want to protect your car, you buy auto insurance. It's al about You the WILLING insurance consumer. Once we become unwilling consumers people will try to milk it.

Point of both are it's handing over cash for absolutely nothing at all. What other industry charges money, and a good chunch of it but offers no product or service in return? The only thing they say is, if you get hurt/hit and we can't weasle out of it, we'll pay you as little as we can (maybe 2 or 3 months of payments out of every year. Unless you get "lucky" and "win" by having a heart attacK and a quadruple bypass with some brain tumor removed on the side, insurance is lose lose for the consumer. Insurance is also a reason why medical car is so expensive. (I wont argue that the extra expense isn't also to be credited to an extent with the quality of healthcare in the US, as I believe it surely has helped there).

Why should I be forced into purchasing a shady product for on un fair price? Everyone is going to have a different opinion of what's "fair" but that's part of the way supply vs demand works. It normally wouldn't sell unless the bulk of the market felt it was a fair price. So no the price gouging can commence in full swing. The insurance companies aren't to pleased and as such coverate has already been dropped in some states and prices are surely up.

I"m only about halfway through this thread, but really wanted to comment on the auto vs health insurance thing and my take on it. Now I shall continue reading...

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

You've obviously not read any of the colts threads on here then.

Ya, I think it's a great thing to strip liberty from those that insure it.

Football's a game played by men that hit each other but can't skate. I don't focus on Colt's threads.

On the other thing you're stuck on fantasy island without a midget.

Rights aren't stripped. They're freely given. It's called sacrifice. If you don't have people willing to sacrifice their own liberty you can't have freedom.

When I was on active duty I was told when to get a haircut, what to wear, who I could and couldn't date, what I could and couldn't say, where and when I could have a weapon, I could go on and on and on. These weren't stripped rights. They were things I voluntarily gave up.

That's the point that people don't get about DADT. Gays can serve in the military. Like other rights, they have to check the right to be open about their sexuality at the door on behalf of good order and discipline and military readiness.

Anyone not willing to assimilate shouldn't.

 

[rjstew317]

If some uninsured guy hits you, then why wouldn't your unisured motorist insurace cover it? Most policies to my knowledge have that built in.

the state only requires that you carry a liability policy to cover damages to others and property, uninsured motorist and other coverages are often required by your financier to protect their investment. if you own your vehicle outright you only need to meet the minimum coverage requirement to legally have the vehicle on the road.

 

[hornadylnl]

Yes, anyone who joins the military will have a basic understanding of what liberties they give up. Unless you've had a close friend or family member to explain it all to you, there is no way you could possibly know all the rules, regulations, and nannyism that takes place in the military. Remember, missionary is the only authorized position. But how did my leadership get away with doggy style on a daily basis?

 

[Duncan]

So says a federal judge in Virginia in the case brought forth by Liberty University. He makes a compelling argument, given precedent in matters concerning the Commerce Clause. It looks like he relied heavily on the drug warrior inspired Gonzales v. Raich (which has been discussed here before) for his decision. The laws of unintended consequences have struck again and we get to see what was handed to us by conservative politicians. It will be interesting to see where this goes, as it inches its way to the SCOTUS. For now, Obamacare stands (and the republicrats will do nothing on the legislative side to dismantle it) and we're stuck with it.

You Don't Actually Have to Be Engaged In Commerce For Your Choices to Be Regulated Under the Commerce Clause - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

Precedent in the court system was not used until about 1920's ( ? )
I would have to look it up again but a Prof . I think at Harvard introduced it .
Until then each case had to be tried on it's on merit .
The problem with precedent is that the assumption is that the preceding case was judged
in a good , proper , and Constitutional manner .
Of course the decisions were made by fallible men so the decision it's self could be
wrong .
But that is not taken into account in the proceedings that I witness .
Thou shalt not speak ill of thy brother Judge .
Well we get the government that we deserve .. a reflection of the
public - apathy and ignorance .
Thanks
Duncan

 

[Ramen]

A way to stop the Health Care Bill is for a majority of the states to interpose and refuse to fund/enforce everything. Also to be ready to face the consequence of reduced federal funding.

Take the pain, keep the freedoms.