More likely culprit, my gun or the ammo?

[BigRed3588]

I received 500 rounds of PMC Bronze .38 SPL for Christmas and have been experiencing some issues with misfires (Disclaimer: Yes, I followed the safety protocols for each misfire). I’ve gone through 200 rounds of it, 195 of which were run through a Kimber K6S in the 2” DAO configuration. The first box had probably 6 or 7 rounds that misfired on the first primer strike but fired on the second. The second box ran flawlessly, so I chalked it up to bad ammo. Then I loaded the cylinder from the third box and every round failed to fire. I opened the cylinder to examine the primers and they didn’t appear to be light strikes. 5 of the 6 rounds eventually fired, but it took 3-4 full rotations of the cylinder. My dad brought his S&W 640 along, so I ran 5 rounds through it with no issues. Went back to my Kimber and had 2 more misfires over the remaining 39 rounds. The fourth box ran flawlessly.

I am still fairly new to revolvers and could be way off base with this, but the relatively light DA pull on the Kimber had me inclined to believe the springs may not be adequate for the enclosed hammer. However, I haven’t seen any widespread reports of light primer strikes with the K6S. There does seem to be quite a few reports of PMC using “hard primers,” though. That said, I know nothing about reloading components (are some primers harder than others?) and I rarely use PMC ammo.

So, what are your thoughts? Have you heard about/had issues with the K6S or PMC Bronze? Is there anything I can do to assess the revolver short of running other brands through it? I plan to try the PMC in one of my “hammered” revolvers regardless, but thought I’d get some input before I start dropping money on ammo and range time.

 

[Hawkeye7br]

It would seem to me that if your ammo will fire reliably in another gun but not in yours, the problem is not in the ammo. Change your spring or change to ammo with softer primers.

 

[Indyhd]

I agree that sounds like spring not ammo issue, although surprising out of the Kimber.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I received 500 rounds of PMC Bronze .38 SPL for Christmas and have been experiencing some issues with misfires (Disclaimer: Yes, I followed the safety protocols for each misfire). I’ve gone through 200 rounds of it, 195 of which were run through a Kimber K6S in the 2” DAO configuration. The first box had probably 6 or 7 rounds that misfired on the first primer strike but fired on the second. The second box ran flawlessly, so I chalked it up to bad ammo. Then I loaded the cylinder from the third box and every round failed to fire. I opened the cylinder to examine the primers and they didn’t appear to be light strikes. 5 of the 6 rounds eventually fired, but it took 3-4 full rotations of the cylinder. My dad brought his S&W 640 along, so I ran 5 rounds through it with no issues. Went back to my Kimber and had 2 more misfires over the remaining 39 rounds. The fourth box ran flawlessly.

I am still fairly new to revolvers and could be way off base with this, but the relatively light DA pull on the Kimber had me inclined to believe the springs may not be adequate for the enclosed hammer. However, I haven’t seen any widespread reports of light primer strikes with the K6S. There does seem to be quite a few reports of PMC using “hard primers,” though. That said, I know nothing about reloading components (are some primers harder than others?) and I rarely use PMC ammo.

So, what are your thoughts? Have you heard about/had issues with the K6S or PMC Bronze? Is there anything I can do to assess the revolver short of running other brands through it? I plan to try the PMC in one of my “hammered” revolvers regardless, but thought I’d get some input before I start dropping money on ammo and range time.

How much cylinder end shake do you have?

Make sure the firing pin hole is clean

How many previous rounds have been fired? Any issues in those rounds?

I'm assuming stock trigger?

 

[92FSTech]

Could be weak springs, could be too much headspace, could be out of spec firing pin. I don't think it's the ammo if it shoots ok out of your dad's 640. Did you buy the Kimber new or was it used? Any work done to it that you know of, or are you sure it's completely stock?

 

[Michigan Slim]

I've found PMC to be good ammo. Never a misfire here. Give the gun a good scrubbing before anything else.

 

[Ark]

Running a few rounds of the same ammo through a different revolver, if you happen to have one, seems a good diagnostic first step.

 

[Trapper Jim]

Even though I do not get warm and fuzzy with Foreign made ammunition, the problem is with your gun assuming factory sealed ammo. As noted in previous posts, there could be many reasons. Not sure if BossHoss works on Kimbers but you might give him a shout. As a last resort you can send it in to Kimber. There may be a charge if the gun has been messed with by an amateur gunsmith.

While many feel they need the lightest trigger they can get in a revolver, the trade off is often reliability. What one really should go for is a smooth action that will light up ANY primer, ANY time if this is a defensive weapon.

I never have been a fan of reducing hammer mass to get a quicker lock time either. Disabling 50 percent of your action choices have not been worth the bobbing of hammers or eliminating the single action sear for ANY of my defense revolvers. Just me.

See you on the range..

Trapper

 

[tackdriver]

I vote BOTH. It's not just the gun, or the ammo, but the combination of that gun + that ammo. More specific, it's the firing pin force on that gun and the hardness of those primers. (I'm assuming that the Kimber has been reliable with other ammo you have used.)

For years I picked up Small Rifle/Small Pistol primers buy what was on the shelf, and if I found a good deal. Mostly CCI 400/500, with some Winchester SR. I used them interchangably in Browning Hi-Powers, Ruger GP-100, and some in a Beretta 92. I never had a problem.

I've recently become a fan of the Sig 365 (striker fired). Given the difficulty finding primers, I wound up with a bunch of Federal AR Match SR's. These ran fine in the Hi-power, but NOT ONE will fire in the P365. The striker spring, or length of the pin, or whatever just will not ignite the primer (most will the second strike though). No "defect" involved however. The gun wasn't designed for hard rifle primers, and the primers weren't designed for small striker fired pistols. I'm just glad I didn't load 1000's of these before testing.

I'm guessing that Blazer is being less picky about the primers it can source, and they may be on the hard side. Kimber was likely going for the sweet trigger with low pull weight, and the spring is a little on the light side. Put them together, and here you are.

Bummer you still have a lot of that ammo. Maybe you can trade with your dad, and get something that works in the Kimber. Were it me, I'd talk to Kimber about getting a little more "umpf" if this is a carry gun, but that's a preference trade-off with the pull weight.

Best of luck sorting this out!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Is your Kimber on the California approved list? If so, I have an idea as I posted about it a few years ago.

I have a Smith 325 with a short firing pin (it is how they pass the California drop test). Put right sized firing pin, abd a trip to MA, and I was gtg.

Lemme see if I can find it.

 

[churchmouse]

Could be weak springs, could be too much headspace, could be out of spec firing pin. I don't think it's the ammo if it shoots ok out of your dad's 640. Did you buy the Kimber new or was it used? Any work done to it that you know of, or are you sure it's completely stock?

^^^^^^^This.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

I'm with Tackdriver. I believe it's probably a little bit of both.

 

[DadSmith]

I received 500 rounds of PMC Bronze .38 SPL for Christmas and have been experiencing some issues with misfires (Disclaimer: Yes, I followed the safety protocols for each misfire). I’ve gone through 200 rounds of it, 195 of which were run through a Kimber K6S in the 2” DAO configuration. The first box had probably 6 or 7 rounds that misfired on the first primer strike but fired on the second. The second box ran flawlessly, so I chalked it up to bad ammo. Then I loaded the cylinder from the third box and every round failed to fire. I opened the cylinder to examine the primers and they didn’t appear to be light strikes. 5 of the 6 rounds eventually fired, but it took 3-4 full rotations of the cylinder. My dad brought his S&W 640 along, so I ran 5 rounds through it with no issues. Went back to my Kimber and had 2 more misfires over the remaining 39 rounds. The fourth box ran flawlessly.

I am still fairly new to revolvers and could be way off base with this, but the relatively light DA pull on the Kimber had me inclined to believe the springs may not be adequate for the enclosed hammer. However, I haven’t seen any widespread reports of light primer strikes with the K6S. There does seem to be quite a few reports of PMC using “hard primers,” though. That said, I know nothing about reloading components (are some primers harder than others?) and I rarely use PMC ammo.

So, what are your thoughts? Have you heard about/had issues with the K6S or PMC Bronze? Is there anything I can do to assess the revolver short of running other brands through it? I plan to try the PMC in one of my “hammered” revolvers regardless, but thought I’d get some input before I start dropping money on ammo and range time.

Can you post a picture of the primers that failed to fire and once fired not several times so we can look at how much the firing pin is denting the primer?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Here is the struggle with my Smith M325 summer/fall of 2018, took a 505 firing pin and a trip back to Massachusetts to fix it:

Firing Pin Length, Frame-Mounted S&W Revolvers

Test firing new guns today near Brookston. Issues with Smith M325 setting off all the rounds. I used the moon clips that came with the weapon so no issues with bent clips. When I took my M625 to Sand Burr in March, Yoda diagnosed the problem before I spoke, and suggested a longer firing pin...

www.indianagunowners.com

 

[Leadeye]

Curious, do you only experience the failure in DA or does it not fire in SA as well?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Curious, do you only experience the failure in DA or does it not fire in SA as well?

It's DAO...

 

[Leadeye]

It's DAO...

My ignorance about modern guns shows through brightly sometimes.

 

[BigRed3588]

How much cylinder end shake do you have?

Make sure the firing pin hole is clean

How many previous rounds have been fired? Any issues in those rounds?

I'm assuming stock trigger?

No end shake to speak of. The cylinder is recessed and basically sits flush between the forcing cone and frame. The gun was BNIB and hasn’t been altered in any way. The PMC ammo is all that I’ve fired through it so far so unfortunately I don’t have anything to compare it to yet.

 

[BigRed3588]

Can you post a picture of the primers that failed to fire and once fired not several times so we can look at how much the firing pin is denting the primer?

I didn’t save the brass but I’ve had light primer strikes with other guns and I remember looking at the rounds in the cylinder and thinking they should have fired. Granted, it can be hard to tell with the naked eye, but they definitely weren’t noticeably light.

 

[BigRed3588]

Here is the struggle with my Smith M325 summer/fall of 2018, took a 505 firing pin and a trip back to Massachusetts to fix it:

Firing Pin Length, Frame-Mounted S&W Revolvers

Test firing new guns today near Brookston. Issues with Smith M325 setting off all the rounds. I used the moon clips that came with the weapon so no issues with bent clips. When I took my M625 to Sand Burr in March, Yoda diagnosed the problem before I spoke, and suggested a longer firing pin...

www.indianagunowners.com

California’s website with authorized firearms has my model listed but doesn’t contain serial numbers. I’d assume that means Kimber manufactured all of them with California compliant parts?