Military personnel blow the whistle on exercise

[indykid]

For those who don't think members of the military won't turn on unarmed civilians, I have two words for you:

KENT STATE!


I remember it like it was yesterday. When armed soldiers opened fire on unarmed students.

These days with the paranoia our government has, where exercising our first amendment rights to disagree with our government is looked at as being anti-American, I have no reason to doubt that Obama-messiah wouldn't hesitate to use force, even deadly force against we the people!

 

[E5RANGER375]

For those who don't think members of the military won't turn on unarmed civilians, I have two words for you:

KENT STATE!


I remember it like it was yesterday. When armed soldiers opened fire on unarmed students.

These days with the paranoia our government has, where exercising our first amendment rights to disagree with our government is looked at as being anti-American, I have no reason to doubt that Obama-messiah wouldn't hesitate to use force, even deadly force against we the people!

yeah, in a combat situation, it becomes more about self preservation than anything else realy. you fight for the men next to you and they fight for you and hopefully you all get to make it home alive, but if not then hopefully you at least helped your buddy make it

 

[irishfan]

For those who don't think members of the military won't turn on unarmed civilians, I have two words for you:

KENT STATE!


I remember it like it was yesterday. When armed soldiers opened fire on unarmed students.

These days with the paranoia our government has, where exercising our first amendment rights to disagree with our government is looked at as being anti-American, I have no reason to doubt that Obama-messiah wouldn't hesitate to use force, even deadly force against we the people!

The moment they fire on unarmed civilians or harm them is the time those soldiers are no longer the American military I will listen to. SOLDIERS SHOULD NOT BE USED FOR ANY ACTION AGAINST AMERICAN CIVILIANS EVER!!!!

 

[mettle]

scary times we are living in if our own military is preparing for action action against its own citizens.

Even worse, following through on orders to kill/maim innocent protestors...

AMERICANS!

 

[Jack Ryan]

The moment they fire on unarmed civilians or harm them is the time those soldiers are no longer the American military I will listen to. SOLDIERS SHOULD NOT BE USED FOR ANY ACTION AGAINST AMERICAN CIVILIANS EVER!!!!

Whiskey rebellian, War of Northern Aggression, Hurricane Katrina, not a problem given your own scenario, from what I've read here is sounds like every one on the forum is armed constantly. Fair game, he?

They've been preparing the NG to control the and dominate the civilian population since Carter was in office and supported through every flip flop of the Uni-Party regime change.

 

[Ebenezer]

I must admit I'm quite impressed by the ad hoc collection of statements and piecemeal out-of-context quotes from other publications that managed to create this paranoid hysterical and fantasy article. And the source of this "news"? None other than a fringe publication from a well-known conspiracy theorist, Alex Jones.

1. The US Military is prohibited by law from engaging in violent conflict with the US population in the homeland, and there has never been any indication whatsoever that the Constitution, Congress approval for military operations and separation of powers have been turned upside down in an alternative world to let this happen.
2. The Army Times article states that 3DIV 1 Brig will have a permanent role in HELPING locals:
"They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack.
Training for homeland scenarios has already begun at Fort Stewart and includes specialty tasks such as knowing how to use the “jaws of life” to extract a person from a mangled vehicle; extra medical training for a CBRNE incident; and working with U.S. Forestry Service experts on how to go in with chainsaws and cut and clear trees to clear a road or area.
The 1st BCT’s soldiers also will learn how to use “the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded,” 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them.
The package is for use only in war-zone operations, not for any domestic purpose."

AND this:
"The brigade will not change its name, but the force will be known for the next year as a CBRNE Consequence Management Response Force, or CCMRF (pronounced “sea-smurf”).
“I can’t think of a more noble mission than this,” said Cloutier, who took command in July. “We’ve been all over the world during this time of conflict, but now our mission is to take care of citizens at home ... and depending on where an event occurred, you’re going home to take care of your home town, your loved ones.”
While soldiers’ combat training is applicable, he said, some nuances don’t apply.
“If we go in, we’re going in to help American citizens on American soil, to save lives, provide critical life support, help clear debris, restore normalcy and support whatever local agencies need us to do, so it’s kind of a different role,” said Cloutier, who, as the division operations officer on the last rotation, learned of the homeland mission a few months ago while they were still in Iraq."
3. Where's the proof that the instructions/memos are genuine? Where are the letterheads/seals/stamps?
4. Who were the "military" personnel calling in on this radio station to confirm? Did they give their name, rank, s/n?

 

[HICKMAN]

Alex Jones take on this:

YouTube - Alex Jones: Sets The Record Straight and Reaches Out to The Military

I don't listen to everything he says, but I do like to get info from many sources.

 

[HICKMAN]

I'm not ex-military, but isn't this presicely what they are trained to do... follow orders blindly???

NO!

NCO's run the soldiers actions, and they would damn sure know better.

 

[WWIIIDefender]

My WAG, based on my time in, is maybe... MAYBE 25% would refuse. Others would follow orders, after being fed a fair amount of propaganda.

I totally agree with 25%, or atleast 25% are awake and aware of our current situation. I am afraid however that the actually all out refusal will be less. Remember if your in a minority and you refuse then you will be put into the same category as the people they are training against. I made it to E6 before I reliezed it was time to get out.

 

[ihateiraq]

the given scenario is a scary one indeed. as a soldier, if my chain of command tells me someone is a violent home grown terrorist(i.e. tim mcveigh) group, what should i do?

I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic...

what makes an american terrorist group that is "just supporting the constitution" different from al-qaeda if they are attempting to use the same means to achieve their goals?

im in no position to do any independent research or investigations into this group. all i can go off of is what i have been presented in my frago.

do i have qualms about killing americans? yes. but would i hesitate to if said american was using terrorist tactics against the civilian population? no. and none of you should either. military or no.

the given scenario would be quite a pickle to be sure.

 

[onviousluu]

Just remember, that the majority of those worthless people you all know that joined the military for money, or because they couldn't find a job are generally easy to spot. For the most part we refer to them as "POG"s. Personnel other than grunts. The infantry in the military is comprised mostly of people who joined knowing they were giving a chance at more successful life had they not joined and went to school.

Now it is true however, that in the last few years, there has been a growing number of scum joining.

But again, if anyone has paid much attention to how the military works, generally during peace times a lot of not so savory characters join the military. Once war breaks out is when loyal citizens join up in mass to protect their country. This is how it has always been.

It is true what others have said earlier in this thread, and that is that our young soldiers and Marines are subject to propaganda and if the government is smart enough they could convince the military that they are dealing with a local "terrorist" threat. This takes time however. The reality is, our military won't be used against citizens today until the government is able to generate the idea that their is a true local terrorist threat that must be squashed by "patriots" in the military. In other words, once they have convinced military personnel that citizens are anti-American only then can they be used in such as way as the article implies.

 

[cop car]

if the military was called in for something like that nothing good for the government would come of it. hell, half the people they would be fighting would be ex army buddies and family members. not going to work. thats why you have to have an SS like group, ie FBI, DEA, ATF and other government agencies that are out of touch with reality to be able to subdue a rowdy population.

 

[SavageEagle]

There are currently 6 Battalions across the Country preparing for this. This is not a surprise to me.

the given scenario is a scary one indeed. as a soldier, if my chain of command tells me someone is a violent home grown terrorist(i.e. tim mcveigh) group, what should i do?

I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic...

what makes an american terrorist group that is "just supporting the constitution" different from al-qaeda if they are attempting to use the same means to achieve their goals?

im in no position to do any independent research or investigations into this group. all i can go off of is what i have been presented in my frago.

do i have qualms about killing americans? yes. but would i hesitate to if said american was using terrorist tactics against the civilian population? no. and none of you should either. military or no.

the given scenario would be quite a pickle to be sure.

This is the whole problem right here. In the time of action, would the individual soldiers recognize the difference between the McVeigh types and the Old lady with a cane Tea Party person? What about a local militia working security for the Tea Party?

If the military is telling it's soldiers that the people are domestic terrorists, but are just a peaceful, or semi-peaceful protest...

Very scary times indeed. I have faith in our military men and women though.

 

[ihateiraq]

There are currently 6 Battalions across the Country preparing for this. This is not a surprise to me.



This is the whole problem right here. In the time of action, would the individual soldiers recognize the difference between the McVeigh types and the Old lady with a cane Tea Party person? What about a local militia working security for the Tea Party?

If the military is telling it's soldiers that the people are domestic terrorists, but are just a peaceful, or semi-peaceful protest...

Very scary times indeed. I have faith in our military men and women though.

thats an obvious distinction, but most arent so easy. case and point, whats the difference between this https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_room/88649-concealing_his_position.html, and the militia guys that were selling pipe bombs and planning on executing cops?

being on the scene of a protest would be pretty easy for me too. its something like waco that would be really difficult.

 

[gunowner930]

Just remember, that the majority of those worthless people you all know that joined the military for money, or because they couldn't find a job are generally easy to spot. For the most part we refer to them as "POG"s. Personnel other than grunts. The infantry in the military is comprised mostly of people who joined knowing they were giving a chance at more successful life had they not joined and went to school.

Yep those same worthless pogs who keep track of your leave, make sure you get paid, drive you around, ensure your comm equipment works, provide air support, artillery or armored support, intel, ISR, mevevacs, makes sure you have supplies etc. Those worthless pogs also swore the same oath you did. And are no more or no less likely to obey unlawful orders.

 

[E5RANGER375]

waco wasnt difficult for the gov to execute at all. they used the alphabet agencies and a certain "very special" military group, and did what they wanted to do, and then got away with the cover-up. they violated the constitution.

heres the thing i wory about. does congress realy control the alphabet agencies??? i say NO. on paper yes, but in reality NO. look at all of the powers the President has to F us up with and not even consult congress before it got out of hand. who would the military obey??? the president or congress?? I say the president in the end. and thats scary with the one we have now.
as far as the govt painting negative or terroristic pictures of ordinary citizens, look at how they have used the media and propaganda to turn a lot of the public on veterans!!! look at how many people who the first thing they think of when they meet a vet is "i wonder if he has PTSD?" certain sheep already have tried to take guns away from veterans, and try to say that every vet has PTSD. well let me say that i trust any vet with PTSD (who got it PROTECTING THE RIGHTS OF AMERICANS) more than I do a lot of other groups of citizens with guns.

this is just one example how they HAVE bad mouthed and made evil (vets) who are highly trained, exactly the people they dont want standing up against them if SHTF. so what do you do if you have a threat that you wanna take out publicly without firing a shot? you try to villanize them and discredit them. any other vet been looked at weird or with fear because of what your MOS was in the military??? My point exactly

just my 2 cents but i think you will find verifyable truth in it.

 

[ihateiraq]

The infantry in the military is comprised mostly of people who joined knowing they were giving a chance at more successful life had they not joined and went to school.

or because they didnt score high enough on the asvab to do anything else. i ran into plenty of those cats in my day.

 

[HICKMAN]

thats an obvious distinction, but most arent so easy. case and point, whats the difference between this https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_room/88649-concealing_his_position.html, and the militia guys that were selling pipe bombs and planning on executing cops?

being on the scene of a protest would be pretty easy for me too. its something like waco that would be really difficult.

you do know that case is falling apart right? Lead FBI agent doesn't recall much, didn't verify her facts, doesn't have much more than talk....

YouTube - FBI can provide NO facts to court about the men it arrested!

this is what happens when dikes named Janet run things...

 

[mrjarrell]

As I recall there was a survey taken back in the 90's of Marines at 29 Palms (you can google for the results of the survey, they're still online at various places). The survey, by a military officer actually had a scenario question along the lines of "Would you fire on Americans if ordered to in the commission of your duties (confiscating firearms)", as I recall. A decent number of the Marines said they would refuse, but another segment were quite adamant about killing civilians. I have no doubt that many in the military would open fire on civilians when ordered to. Sad to say it. Will it ever come to that? I sure hope not.

 

[SavageEagle]

thats an obvious distinction, but most arent so easy. case and point, whats the difference between this https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_room/88649-concealing_his_position.html, and the militia guys that were selling pipe bombs and planning on executing cops?

being on the scene of a protest would be pretty easy for me too. its something like waco that would be really difficult.

Right. You got a good point.

However, the battalions I mention are there in case of severe civil unrest.

What would happen if, say, government goes completely out of control and the citizens who've had enough say so in the most precarious of ways? That's the real question. I would like to think the Military would be on the side of the people, but in reality I expect it to be a fair split 50/50. That's being pessimistic about it though.

I just hope we never have to find out, but fear that we will.