Mechanic's opinion needed...

[Lmo1131]

I've got an oddball engine problem and just about at my wits end.

The vehicle is a 1989 Ford Escort GL, 1.9L engine, automatic transmission.

This problem started about a month ago; drove the car to the grocery, came out, tried to start the engine... no love. Had it towed to 'my' local independent shop. They 'diagnosed' the problem as needing a new distributor. They replaced it. Car ran great on the way home. Next morning it started right up. Ran for about a minute and the engine idle 'stumbled' pretty severely. It did not die and resumed a nice even idle. A minute later it did it again.

At speeds under 45 it will occasionally lose throttle response; thinking that the engine has died you start to pull off the road only to realize that the engine is running, and that throttle response has returned. This symptom is becoming more frequent.

It pulls like a champ onto the interstate; and will maintain 85 mph with no problems. Drop back to 'town' driving and it will start to do the same thing.

The distributor is new. The TFI is new, and the Idle Speed Control Motor is new.

Throttle Position Sensor?

Fuel Filter?

Coil? (haven't seen too many coils die in my life, but...)

 

[d.kaufman]

I'd replace the TP sensor

 

[thunderchicken]

I would start with the throttle position sensor. While there I would pull the air intake tube off the throttle body and clean any carbon deposits off the throttle body & blade.

I've actually seen several coils that created problems at low speed. Inspect it for any evidence of carbon tracking.

 

[Brad69]

I would guess this is a high mile auto?

My swag is lifters are going out or camshaft is bad.

Could be the timing belt as well when they get slack can cause issues. I think that's like a 50k replacement on that thing.

Congratulations on hanging on to a relic!

 

[Lmo1131]

I would guess this is a high mile auto?

Congratulations on hanging on to a relic!

125,000, probably 'high' for what it is, but at 34 years that's only about 3,600 miles per year. It was my mom's car. We use it around town, super easy to get into tight parking spaces. The A/C is gone, but the stereo still rocks!

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

Hope you get it sorted out. That's kinda cool looking. And rust free?

 

[Lmo1131]

Hope you get it sorted out. That's kinda cool looking. And rust free?

Dad bought it new for mom in ‘89. She drove it around Columbus (grocery runs mostly) until she passed in ‘04. Total garage queen until we brought it out to sunny Kommiefornia in ‘05. Paints faded somewhat but the body is still sound.

I had to order a Motorcraft Throttle Position Sensor so it will be a couple of days before l can swap it out.

 

[Firehawk]

I've got an oddball engine problem and just about at my wits end.

The vehicle is a 1989 Ford Escort GL, 1.9L engine, automatic transmission.

This problem started about a month ago; drove the car to the grocery, came out, tried to start the engine... no love. Had it towed to 'my' local independent shop. They 'diagnosed' the problem as needing a new distributor. They replaced it. Car ran great on the way home. Next morning it started right up. Ran for about a minute and the engine idle 'stumbled' pretty severely. It did not die and resumed a nice even idle. A minute later it did it again.

At speeds under 45 it will occasionally lose throttle response; thinking that the engine has died you start to pull off the road only to realize that the engine is running, and that throttle response has returned. This symptom is becoming more frequent.

It pulls like a champ onto the interstate; and will maintain 85 mph with no problems. Drop back to 'town' driving and it will start to do the same thing.

The distributor is new. The TFI is new, and the Idle Speed Control Motor is new.

Throttle Position Sensor?

Fuel Filter?

Coil? (haven't seen too many coils die in my life, but...)

Do you have the report from the shop on why they thought the distributor was bad?

From what your describing it sounds like a sensor problem to me too. The trick is figuring out which one. The Thottle Position sensor, mass air flow sensor or oxygen (02) sensor all could cause what your describing. Those sensors read within a certain “range” and they can fail in way that they stop reading or read incorrectly at a certain area within its range. I had a 95 Jeep that had a similar problem that turned out to be a bad oxygen sensor.

I’ve heard of a bad EGR valve causing weird drivability problems but I’m a bit rusty on that.

Unfortunately I don’t have any advice on how to narrow it down any further. Google and YouTube can be a great resource.

I’m far from knowing it all and I’ve probably forgotten more about cars than I remember from my technician days.

 

[BR8818]

You said it was diagnosed as a bad distributor, and replaced. Does the new distributor have a new ICM or was the old ICM transferred to the new Distributor?

 

[Mounty09]

What brand is the new distributor and TFI? Some of the aftermarket ones are junk.

 

[Brandon]

Had an egr valve go out on an oldsmobile, it was bad driving until it was fixed but gas milage went to absolute garbage

 

[injb]

Do you have the report from the shop on why they thought the distributor was bad?

From what your describing it sounds like a sensor problem to me too. The trick is figuring out which one. The Thottle Position sensor, mass air flow sensor or oxygen (02) sensor all could cause what your describing. Those sensors read within a certain “range” and they can fail in way that they stop reading or read incorrectly at a certain area within its range. I had a 95 Jeep that had a similar problem that turned out to be a bad oxygen sensor.

I’ve heard of a bad EGR valve causing weird drivability problems but I’m a bit rusty on that.

Unfortunately I don’t have any advice on how to narrow it down any further. Google and YouTube can be a great resource.

I’m far from knowing it all and I’ve probably forgotten more about cars than I remember from my technician days.

Would it have an O2 sensor from 1989? You could always try unplugging it if it does. Some cars will run with it disconnected (albeit a little richer) and if the problem goes away then you found the issue. O2 sensors are pretty much guaranteed to fail eventually.

I think firehawk nailed it with this:

...why they thought the distributor was bad?

Don't buy any parts until you have the answer to that.

 

[Firehawk]

Would it have an O2 sensor from 1989? You could always try unplugging it if it does. Some cars will run with it disconnected (albeit a little richer) and if the problem goes away then you found the issue. O2 sensors are pretty much guaranteed to fail eventually.

I think firehawk nailed it with this:



Don't buy any parts until you have the answer to that.

If it’s fuel injected it has an O2 sensor. I’m assuming the Ford Escort had some form of fuel injection by 1989 but I could be wrong.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

I'm guessing throttle position as well as it sounds like something is worn in it's normal operating range with your mom driving, which is 45 or under. As to why they thought the distributor would stop sending signal intermittently at low speed sounds like poor diag UNLESS the advance is vacuum operated and there's a loss of vacuum at times. That's a long shot in my opinion, as it just doesn't make sense. It would still send spark, just not at the right time.

 

[Creedmoor]

I would start with the throttle position sensor. While there I would pull the air intake tube off the throttle body and clean any carbon deposits off the throttle body & blade.

I've actually seen several coils that created problems at low speed. Inspect it for any evidence of carbon tracking.

We had the coil thing with my girls 3800 Buick.
The bad coil took out the ignition module.

 

[Creedmoor]

Dad bought it new for mom in ‘89. She drove it around Columbus (grocery runs mostly) until she passed in ‘04. Total garage queen until we brought it out to sunny Kommiefornia in ‘05. Paints faded somewhat but the body is still sound.

I had to order a Motorcraft Throttle Position Sensor so it will be a couple of days before l can swap it out.

We owned two of them long ago, The rear shock towers rotted out.
They would float around like a worn out 1969 Fleetwood.

 

[thunderchicken]

We had the coil thing with my girls 3800 Buick.
The bad coil took out the ignition module.

Oh yeah GM 3100 & 3800 coils would get weak and smoke an ignition module

 

[Creedmoor]

Oh yeah GM 3100 & 3800 coils would get weak and smoke an ignition module

Next thing to go was the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail.
She kept trying to start it, I walked up to her car and the gas smell was overwhelming.
I took the air cleaner off and fuel was dripping out of the large vacuum line on the air mass?? I was like wtf
I opened up the oil filler and the engine was stone full of oil and fuel.

It got towed, what a pain in the dick, drop pan and clean pick-up, pull front cover for new oil pump, pulled the intake and heads for the modern Fel-Pros.
I was so pissed off with that motor.

 

[thunderchicken]

Next thing to go was the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail.
She kept trying to start it, I walked up to her car and the gas smell was overwhelming.
I took the air cleaner off and fuel was dripping out of the large vacuum line on the air mass?? I was like wtf
I opened up the oil filler and the engine was stone full of oil and fuel.

It got towed, what a pain in the dick, drop pan and clean pick-up, pull front cover for new oil pump, pulled the intake and heads for the modern Fel-Pros.
I was so pissed off with that motor.

Wow, that sounds like a mess. A coworker we t to bring one in that had the 3800 in it. All we knew was it was towed in for a no start. Well when he went to start it, apparently it was full of fuel and the plastic intake exploded.

 

[Creedmoor]

Wow, that sounds like a mess. A coworker we t to bring one in that had the 3800 in it. All we knew was it was towed in for a no start. Well when he went to start it, apparently it was full of fuel and the plastic intake exploded.

It happened a lot. Between milk shaking and fuel, it was tough on those engines.