Making replacement springs?

[mjsnook]

I have a friend that is a knife maker. He has all of the equipment needed to do the heat-treating process. I'm picking up some music wire from 30calmachinegunner today and will attempt to make and test a spring out of it. However, I may try to find other material and see if I can get my friend to heat treat them for me.

 

[rockhopper46038]

Thank you for the detailed post, Jim. Very interesting.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Sorry, I thought you wanted to properly make a spring. If not... I am a stickler for doing it the right way, if that's at all possible.

Ah.... I see now... you're implying that the only way to properly make a spring is your way, because you've been doing for years... You seem to have a misunderstanding of material properties especially those surrounding springs.

You suggest heat-treating and tempering said spring with uncontrolled methods like heating to certain colors that are subjective and dependent upon specific alloy. Yet call my suggested process akin to guess & check? At least my process has a method of easily "checking". An uncontrolled HT&T process is guessing without the checking...

Different strokes for different folks I guess but I have no issues winding my springs from music wire to the sizes I need. On occasion I'll have 1 or 2 wasted winds until I get the mandrel size right. At most it takes me 10 minutes to make a spring the first time making that specific spring (and only a minute or two on any consecutive springs), you'll still be annealing at the 10 minute mark... heat-treating and tempering at the 2 hour mark and your spring may finally be ready by hour 3... that is, if you are actually doing your process properly and giving your heat-treating, annealing, and tempering properl soaking and ramping times...

Of course, doing springs your way certainly has it's place, but that's typically with very large springs that would take massive amount of force to wind in the hardened state (think coil springs made 1.5" dia. wire for train-cars or such) or don't lend well to forming in the hardened state. Companies making springs that way are using real heat-treating processes that are controlled and they know what they get.

That being said, the vast majority of springs are formed in the hardened state because that is the most reliable and economical method. Even for the home-shop guy it's the most economical, hands-down.

I don't say this to squash anybody's desire to learn, or to have fun tinkering in their garage. If that is the motive, by all means, make springs Jim's way. I just say it to point out the obvious differences in economy. I like to take the easiest approach that will yield a functional outcome; why create extra work for yourself? I'm busy; if I can end up at the same end result with less monetary input and less time investment I will do it.

You never did answer my previous question though. Where are you buying your wire? Are you buying music wire and annealing it prior to forming? If so, certainly the OP could acquire the music wire and try to form springs in the hardened state. If his attempts fail then he could try your method. Nothing to lose except a few inches of wire that cost a few pennies...

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

Actually, I have learned through larger springs, but not coil, leaf. As in main spring on a Brit or Euro made SxS. However, I don't take long doing small coils the same way, they take very little time to heat , even when doing so slowly. Once again, you can ,and many do, wind spring steel wire or piano wire as you refer to it, in the cold, tempered state. I don't really care what you want to do, nor how you do it. The subject came up, the spring in question really is a bit on the stout side to my mind for a wire spring, and I simply thought there was an interest in actually making a spring. To me, playing around with steel through the different color stages is interesting and a good learning experience. I like to see a spring snap like glass or become so soft as to lose it's memory. It's an experience to see and learn the subtle differences. Later, you use those to make something a bit more intricate and not as easily purchased. If you're looking for easy, I've already seen a couple of ready made springs that will probably suffice. Probably. Then the next time you need a spring, hope for the same. It's all in what you want to accomplish in the long run I guess. I've gotten some spring material from Brownell's, some from McMaster-Carr, and some given to me from who knows what source? I believe Brownell's would be a good place to start, but like many of their products, you can often find a less expensive source if you look around.
Luck,
Jim

 

[tmkr]

MSC or Enco will probably have music wire cheaper than Mcmaster.
I have almost a full box of .043 music wire bought for a job a few years ago.I can send you some or I can try to make your spring.I will need some sort of a drawing or the old spring.No promise of success but I would give it a whirl.