Looks like the dems don't like the prospect of an awb either

[undecided]

saw links to this on another site

Democratic Underground - Goodbye Camelot, I never got to see you... - Democratic Underground

Democratic Underground - Obama to Seek New Assault Weapons Ban - Democratic Underground

 

[Bigum1969]

It's interesting plowing through those posts. Sounds like a lot of dems really do remember what happened in 1996 following the 1994 AWB.

 

[tyler34]

what was it like behind enemy lines? they were eating babies weren't they.

 

[finity]

Ahh...It does my heart good to read through those DU threads & see, for a fact, what I have been saying all along. To wit, on one of the most liberal boards on the 'net, the pro-gun side is in the majority & they are as well versed in the same pro-gun arguments that the people here are.

I don't hold out much hope but it should at least help lay to rest the "liberals are all ignorant ant-gun sheep" meme promulgated by the non-thinking members of INGO (you know who you are ).

 

[BloodEclipse]

Ahh...It does my heart good to read through those DU threads & see, for a fact, what I have been saying all along. To wit, on one of the most liberal boards on the 'net, the pro-gun side is in the majority & they are as well versed in the same pro-gun arguments that the people here are.

I don't hold out much hope but it should at least help lay to rest the "liberals are all ignorant ant-gun sheep" meme promulgated by the non-thinking members of INGO (you know who you are ).

I don't think many INGO members think that about all liberals. So let me fix your statement by removing the word "all"

"liberals are ignorant ant-gun sheep"

You know I'm j/king but I couldn't pass that up.

 

[HICKMAN]

Ahh...It does my heart good to read through those DU threads & see, for a fact, what I have been saying all along. To wit, on one of the most liberal boards on the 'net, the pro-gun side is in the majority & they are as well versed in the same pro-gun arguments that the people here are.

I don't hold out much hope but it should at least help lay to rest the "liberals are all ignorant ant-gun sheep" meme promulgated by the non-thinking members of INGO (you know who you are ).

Except they aren't in charge of the country and Obama and his crew are. He will do anything he wants because "he won and people voted for change"

But, I hope you are right...

 

[Hoosier8]

Good to see the pro gun rights vote in the Senate yesterday for the amendment to the DC voting bill. The Senate is about 60-40 pro right now.

 

[sonovasailor]

Liberals kill babies, release killers from prison, love communism, and hate those evil guns. If you believe otherwise, you are wrong. If any Dems are against a awb it is because they are afraid of being voted out. Right now they have a few gun guys beliving they are pro-gun. Those guys need to check voting records...... And yes, I am clinging to my Bible and my guns!!!

 

[96harley]

sonovasailor....good post goes to show they do not support life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[Hoosier8]

Liberals kill babies, release killers from prison, love communism, and hate those evil guns. If you believe otherwise, you are wrong. If any Dems are against a awb it is because they are afraid of being voted out. Right now they have a few gun guys beliving they are pro-gun. Those guys need to check voting records...... And yes, I am clinging to my Bible and my guns!!!

There are quite a few conservative Democrats in office right now and the liberals are on the war path to replace them with "progressive" Democrats that will do their bidding. You see, there were many states not satisfied with Bush but not necessarily "pro progressive". What choice was there anyway? If things keep going as they are and the Republicans have a "valid" choice next election, it may swing back again. Time will tell.

The conservatives believe in killing the guilty after commiting a henious crime and protecting the innocent.

The liberals believe in killing the innocent before they can hold a crayon and protecting the guilty.

 

[paddling_man]

I just spent about 15 minutes there... TwilightGardener has her head shoved so far up her waste region that she can't see light. I don't say this purely because I disagree with her position (though I do) - it's just that she waffles about with no real position or fact other than her emotion and xenophobic attitude.

In regard to Dem's and Republican's, I refuse to follow any blindly:

From the Thread about convicted felons having firearm ownership rights restored.

I've made mistakes in my life... several. I'll probably make more before my time here is finished. There are some things (behaviors) of which I have no tolerance. Behaviors I find intolerant may be acceptable for others - we're all a bit different.

I have difficulty calling myself a liberal or a conservative - Republican or Democrat. Still, I tend to lean more right than left. There are special interests planks on both sides that I have issues with supporting.

The common thread for me is self-reliance and non-interference from the government in issues which, I feel, should be outside their bailiwick. I lived in the South for a couple of decades and found a thin line existing between hillbillies and hippies (and bikers) at least those populations that lived in the mountains of East Tenn and Western NC. They were self reliant. They didn't impose on their neighbor. They felt their own actions, when not effecting others, were surrounded by a circle of privacy which the government and community should not intrude.

They also accepted responsibility for their mistakes.

Should the RKBA/vote/freedom be restored for some/all crimes? That is something we'll have to work out as a society of majority rule (or majority tyranny, depending on your perspective position.)

However, until those laws are changed, my children will be reared with the knowledge that if you break the law, there are consequences. Depending on the severity of the crime: loss of freedom, voting rights, the RKBA - all of these may be infringed. (Maybe even be placed in a violent incarceration that could result in physical harm or rape.)

Is it worth doing that crime, kids? If you answer "yes," suck it up and deal with the consequences. If not, then continue on the straight and narrow.

Someone could injure one of my children in such a way that I answer "yes" someday. Until then, I'll avoid punching the j-a that cut me off in traffic.

There is one thing I would remind others of... while I'm not a Union member, there are a HUGE percentage of dedicated voting democrats who are actually pretty conservative - incredibly so regarding the NRA and the RKBA - who still feel compelled to vote as democrats to due to their union obligations and the typical anti-organized labor stance of the republican party.

Not trying to change your voting habits - it doesn't change mine. Only a reminder. I've known several avid gun collecting Catholics who, due to their long term union membership and need to put food on the table, put their distaste aside for the anti-gun and pro-choice planks of the democratic party in order to maintain a degree of personal financial solvency and organized labor potency.

My only point is to not alienate any gun-owners - "black rifle," NFA, and RKBA proponents among them - purely along party lines.

 

[finity]

Except they aren't in charge of the country and Obama and his crew are. He will do anything he wants because "he won and people voted for change"

But, I hope you are right...

Obama & "his crew" don't make the laws, Congress does. He just signs them or not. As of now I don't think the anti-gunners have enough votes in either chamber to pass any gun control BS. Let's hope it stays that way.

 

[finity]

Liberals kill babies, release killers from prison, love communism, and hate those evil guns. If you believe otherwise, you are wrong. If any Dems are against a awb it is because they are afraid of being voted out. Right now they have a few gun guys beliving they are pro-gun. Those guys need to check voting records...... And yes, I am clinging to my Bible and my guns!!!

Wow.

It's always good to know who the "thinking members" are....

 

[Shadowbeach]

.

 

[finity]

It's all BS. The Dems want to take away the guns from everybody. Those that don't are just playing us, take our focus away from the reality. Make no mistake, anyone who is not registered Republican has taken an oath to ban our 2nd Amendment rights.

Your right. Your statement above is all BS.

Not all Democrats are anti-gun & If I were you I wouldn't give the Republicans a free ride & count on them to preserve your 2A rights either.

You probably don't know it but there were 9 Democrat Senators & 68 Democrat Congressmen who joined Cheney & other Republicans in submitting a brief in favor of Heller in the DC v. Heller SCOTUS case.

The renewal of the AWB in 2004 was voted down in the Senate by 90 - 8. I think that means that the majority of Democrat Senators did not vote to renew the ban.

Yeah, it looks like every Democrat is anti-gun.

You probably also didn't know that 95% of Senate Republicans also voted for the first AWB (45 out of 47) including McCain.

From Wikipedia:
H.R. 6257 was introduced by Mark Kirk [R IL-10] on June 12, 2008 and seeks to re-instate the Assault Weapons Ban for a period of ten years, as well as to expand the list of banned weapons. The bill was also referred to the House Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security on 7/28/08. It has four co-sponsors (as of November 5, 2008) supporting it:

• Rep Castle, Michael N. - [R DE-1] - 6/12/2008
• Rep Ferguson, Mike - [R NJ-7] - 6/12/2008
• Rep Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana - [R FL-18] - 6/18/2008
• Rep Shays, Christopher - [R CT-4] - 6/12/2008

Yeah, it looks like every Republican is pro-gun.

You probably don't care if you know the above facts or admit they are true. You wouldn't want the facts to get in the way of your emotional rant now would you. I thought you guys said only liberals did that.


It seems that you should use your head & support pro-gun Democrats over anti-gun Republicans if you really care about your 2A rights unless you're just a dogmatic party-line Republican no matter what the reality is.

 

[Shadowbeach]

.

 

[elaw555]

Most comments don't seem to be in support of the 2A, but seem to put forth the view that attempting to reinstate the AWB is political suicide, similar to what happened in 1996. Either way, if it temporarily keeps them from attempting it, I'll be happy. For now...

 

[Bill of Rights]

Most comments don't seem to be in support of the 2A, but seem to put forth the view that attempting to reinstate the AWB is political suicide, similar to what happened in 1996. Either way, if it temporarily keeps them from attempting it, I'll be happy. For now...

If it temporarily or permanently keeps them from attempting it, I'll be happy to do my part to make it political suicide to attempt.

The problem we run into in IN is that our Congress-critters' record on the 2A is largely anti- no matter their stated party. Dick Lugar claims to be a Republican, but is clearly not our friend. Evan Bayh votes with his party and also is not our friend. In the House, we have:
1 Peter Visclosky Democrat
2 Joe Donnelly, Sr. Democrat
3 Mark Souder Republican
4 Stephen Buyer Republican
5 Dan Burton Republican
6 Mike Pence Republican
7 André Carson Democrat
8 Brad Ellsworth Democrat
9 Baron Hill Democrat

I only know a couple of these by reputation here, and only Mr. Buyer by his service to my district.

I've heard plenty about Visclosky, Carson, and Hill, none of it good.
I've heard quite a bit about Pence, most of it good.
I know that Buyer has always claimed to be pro-2A and I've not seen him vote otherwise, but I've also not seen him distinguish himself in our favor.
I know nothing of Donnelly, Souder, Burton, or Ellsworth, but Project Vote Smart shows voting records, and Donnelly's one "gun issue" vote was to repeal parts of the DC gun ban. He voted to do so, but the bill was sponsored by DC Delegate Eleanor H. Norton (D), who is virulently anti gun, and sponsored this only in response to the SCOTUS decision in Heller.
Souder's voting record is far longer, and much more in our favor. Burton's record, likewise, is much more strongly pro-gun. Lastly, Ellsworth's record, like Donnelly's, shows only the one vote.

Recap:
Senator Dick Lugar Republican---Anti
Senator Evan Bayh Democrat---Anti

Representatives
1 Peter Visclosky Democrat---Anti
2 Joe Donnelly, Sr. Democrat---Undetermined.
3 Mark Souder Republican---Pro
4 Stephen Buyer Republican---Pro
5 Dan Burton Republican---Pro
6 Mike Pence Republican---Pro
7 André Carson Democrat---Anti
8 Brad Ellsworth Democrat---Undetermined
9 Baron Hill Democrat---Anti

Of an 11 member Congressional delegation, we have six Democrats, of whom four are anti-gun and two are possibly pro-gun. In the same group, we have five Republicans, four of whom are pro-gun and one anti.

With this small of a sample, the results are not conclusive, however our (that is, Indiana) ratios would be 66% of Democrats are anti-gun rights, while 80% of Republicans are pro-gun rights.

Conversely, 33% of Democrats are possibly pro-gun rights, possibly not, and 20% of Republicans, or those who claim to be, are anti-gun rights.

No, not ALL Dems are liberals, nor are they anti-gun. Additionally, not ALL Republicans are conservative or pro-gun; just the majority of them both.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bigum1969]

If it temporarily or permanently keeps them from attempting it, I'll be happy to do my part to make it political suicide to attempt.

The problem we run into in IN is that our Congress-critters' record on the 2A is largely anti- no matter their stated party. Dick Lugar claims to be a Republican, but is clearly not our friend. Evan Bayh votes with his party and also is not our friend. In the House, we have:
1 Peter Visclosky Democrat
2 Joe Donnelly, Sr. Democrat
3 Mark Souder Republican
4 Stephen Buyer Republican
5 Dan Burton Republican
6 Mike Pence Republican
7 André Carson Democrat
8 Brad Ellsworth Democrat
9 Baron Hill Democrat

I only know a couple of these by reputation here, and only Mr. Buyer by his service to my district.

I've heard plenty about Visclosky, Carson, and Hill, none of it good.
I've heard quite a bit about Pence, most of it good.
I know that Buyer has always claimed to be pro-2A and I've not seen him vote otherwise, but I've also not seen him distinguish himself in our favor.
I know nothing of Donnelly, Souder, Burton, or Ellsworth, but Project Vote Smart shows voting records, and Donnelly's one "gun issue" vote was to repeal parts of the DC gun ban. He voted to do so, but the bill was sponsored by DC Delegate Eleanor H. Norton (D), who is virulently anti gun, and sponsored this only in response to the SCOTUS decision in Heller.
Souder's voting record is far longer, and much more in our favor. Burton's record, likewise, is much more strongly pro-gun. Lastly, Ellsworth's record, like Donnelly's, shows only the one vote.

Recap:
Senator Dick Lugar Republican---Anti
Senator Evan Bayh Democrat---Anti

Representatives
1 Peter Visclosky Democrat---Anti
2 Joe Donnelly, Sr. Democrat---Undetermined.
3 Mark Souder Republican---Pro
4 Stephen Buyer Republican---Pro
5 Dan Burton Republican---Pro
6 Mike Pence Republican---Pro
7 André Carson Democrat---Anti
8 Brad Ellsworth Democrat---Undetermined
9 Baron Hill Democrat---Anti

Of an 11 member Congressional delegation, we have six Democrats, of whom four are anti-gun and two are possibly pro-gun. In the same group, we have five Republicans, four of whom are pro-gun and one anti.

With this small of a sample, the results are not conclusive, however our (that is, Indiana) ratios would be 66% of Democrats are anti-gun rights, while 80% of Republicans are pro-gun rights.

Conversely, 33% of Democrats are possibly pro-gun rights, possibly not, and 20% of Republicans, or those who claim to be, are anti-gun rights.

No, not ALL Dems are liberals, nor are they anti-gun. Additionally, not ALL Republicans are conservative or pro-gun; just the majority of them both.

Blessings,
Bill

Absolutely superb analysis BOR. Thank you.

 

[hornadylnl]

It seems that you should use your head & support pro-gun Democrats over anti-gun Republicans if you really care about your 2A rights unless you're just a dogmatic party-line Republican no matter what the reality is.

Yes, vote for your local pro gun demoRAT so Nazi Pelosi can be speaker of the house. Within minutes of his arrival in DC, Nazi Pelosi will inform your pro gun demoRAT congressman that if he ever wants a future in the party, he WILL tow the party line.

The NRA endorsed the demoRAT in my district over the republican. If my vote didn't have any implication on who would be speaker, I would consider it. Until then, f the NRA and the demoRAT party.