Long(ish) Range Deer rifle

[YoungMilsurpGuy]

People think 300 is doable, easy peasy. I used too also. I humbled myself. If things are not perfect (wind, good rest, animal broadside, etc ) I ain't tryin. I get to shoot to 300 at the cabin. Taught myself that 200 is about it for me. I took a deer at 200. With the new stands I may be able to stretch that but not too much.
I shake like a dog crapping razor blades so that doesn't help.

For whatever reason I am fairly steady. With a m16a1 upper from criterion i can shoot high 80s/100 standing with a 7 pound rifle and with irons with that rifle shoot at 200 without any problems.

Granted this was when my eyes were 19-20, but with a unissued yugoslav m48 mauser and some match ammo shooting at a steel range i could consistently get hits till about 450 as i couldn't see the C size silhouettes.

300 shouldn't be terribly hard from a supported position with a decent optic though i admit getting out to 400 it gets wonky.

I plan on shooting a bunch of rimfire at 50 and 100 next year in preparation for taking a 6.5 out to distance

 

[bwframe]

What is an ethical long deer shot in Indiana?

How far out have there been measured confirmed one shot kills in the state?

People think 300 is doable, easy peasy. I used too also. I humbled myself. If things are not perfect (wind, good rest, animal broadside, etc ) I ain't tryin. I get to shoot to 300 at the cabin. Taught myself that 200 is about it for me. I took a deer at 200. With the new stands I may be able to stretch that but not too much.
I shake like a dog crapping razor blades so that doesn't help.

I think a lot of the question here is whether folks are pulling a practiced trigger on a shot they have proven they can make every time vs just shooting AT deer?

 

[Mij]

What is an ethical long deer shot in Indiana?

How far out have there been measured confirmed one shot kills in the state?

Great point. A lot of folks (today) don’t remember when we were a shotgun only state.

Now one shot kills, that is a bridge to far for me to answer in this format.

I will offer my opinion on ethical shot distance though. If you can see the deer, and you are a competent shot with your firearm of choice,” and you are 100% sure “ of your downrange environment, the sky is the limit…..But how many times does that criteria happen in Indiana??? JMO YMMV.

I only allow 3 people besides myself to hunt on my property, and none of them use anything beyond a 30-30. (My Rules) And I’ve known them for decades.

Great Question.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What ties all of those together is barrel dwell time relative to the resonant frequency of the barrel/receiver combination (for a free-floated barrel)

Um . . . lemme flip over this chalkboard in the office . . .

 

[cg21]

Great point. A lot of folks (today) don’t remember when we were a shotgun only state.

Now one shot kills, that is a bridge to far for me to answer in this format.

I will offer my opinion on ethical shot distance though. If you can see the deer, and you are a competent shot with your firearm of choice,” and you are 100% sure “ of your downrange environment, the sky is the limit…..But how many times does that criteria happen in Indiana??? JMO YMMV.

I only allow 3 people besides myself to hunt on my property, and none of them use anything beyond a 30-30. (My Rules) And I’ve known them for decades.

Great Question.

unsafe Is unsafe. If you don’t know whats beyond your target doesn’t matter if it is a 22 or a 50.

 

[snapping turtle]

I have access to a barn hay loft that is in the family. Not the greatest spot in the world but it is warmer than a stand when temps get drastic during the season. Plus a heater and wind blocks.

The height of that hay loft and the door access makes it great for longer distance shots with a bi pod and a very good range finder. We measured out the nice areas that deer use and place a paper plate at each one and tried it out.

With my basic setup I would use in this one spot I am comfortable broadside to 500 yards easy. Every paper plate was fired at 3 times and all had three hits.

All that said I have never shot a deer over 100 yard shot (130 paces of mine) and I have been hunting deer since 1978 here. That barn is a very last resort for extremely cold days when you only have that day to hunt.

My closest shot was two corn rows distance from the shotgun barrel end.

All my good spots you would be lucky to see 50 yards max. I guess if you have a giant crop field maybe you would need a long range weapon to score. For me even a shotgun or handgun works well,

 

[YoungMilsurpGuy]

Meh I thought it over and I think i'm just going to buy a .308 and keep a logbook and just shoot the damn thing a lot and learn the holdover for 300 and call it good.

Sure there is a few less clicks of drop but i would rather shoot twice as much with a .308 and also share a .30 caliber can with a .300 blackout

 

[w_ADAM_d88]

My vote is .270win! I've been hunting with a .270win for over 20 years and I've never had to track a deer, they've all been DRT. Shots ranging from 20 yards to 200 yards. I would trust my rifle even further just never had the option or need to shoot past that. Glass is key, spend money on a good scope. I shoot factory Winchester PowerPoints in 150gr. out of mine.

 

[snapping turtle]

My vote is .270win! I've been hunting with a .270win for over 20 years and I've never had to track a deer, they've all been DRT. Shots ranging from 20 yards to 200 yards. I would trust my rifle even further just never had the option or need to shoot past that. Glass is key, spend money on a good scope. I shoot factory Winchester PowerPoints in 150gr. out of mine.

One of the two rifles we shoot (or could) out of the hay barn is a 270 win. The other is the 7mm mag.

 

[Kdf101]

For whatever reason I am fairly steady. With a m16a1 upper from criterion i can shoot high 80s/100 standing with a 7 pound rifle and with irons with that rifle shoot at 200 without any problems.

Granted this was when my eyes were 19-20, but with a unissued yugoslav m48 mauser and some match ammo shooting at a steel range i could consistently get hits till about 450 as i couldn't see the C size silhouettes.

300 shouldn't be terribly hard from a supported position with a decent optic though i admit getting out to 400 it gets wonky.

I plan on shooting a bunch of rimfire at 50 and 100 next year in preparation for taking a 6.5 out to distance

My personal best is 350, most under 75. With my 6.5 CM, I had no trouble at 275 this year. Just know what your round will do and keep an eye on the wind.

 

[natdscott]

My personal best is two arrow lengths.

Powder burns are also nice. As a fellow forum member and I were discussing the other day...it sure is harder to misplace a shot--or a deer--when they were less than 50 yards away to start with.

I realize this is a "Long(ish)" range thread, so I won't derail further, but please don't lose sight of this:

I think a lot of the question here is whether folks are pulling a practiced trigger on a shot they have proven they can make every time vs just shooting AT deer?

Kill deer. Don't shoot at them.

"Good shooters practice until they can get it right. Champions practice until they can't get it wrong."

-Not me.

 

[natdscott]

For whatever reason I am fairly steady. With a m16a1 upper from criterion i can shoot high 80s/100 standing with a 7 pound rifle and with irons with that rifle shoot at 200 without any problems.

Granted this was when my eyes were 19-20, but with a unissued yugoslav m48 mauser and some match ammo shooting at a steel range i could consistently get hits till about 450 as i couldn't see the C size silhouettes.

300 shouldn't be terribly hard from a supported position with a decent optic though i admit getting out to 400 it gets wonky.

I plan on shooting a bunch of rimfire at 50 and 100 next year in preparation for taking a 6.5 out to distance

Come down to Wildcat (wvrpc.org) for a clinic or match this spring/summer.

Bring the AR iron upper. It's all fired at 200 & 300, and the range is fairly protected from wind, so your A1 upper will not be a liability on windage. Criterion will be plenty accurate enough...it's a 2 Minute 10-ring, 1 Minute X-ring, and a 6 Minute aiming black.

I will SUGGEST you pick up an 0.062" "National Match" front post. Compass Lake will send you one for not much. The difference in usability is MARKED.

Anyway.

CMP rimfire is good practice. Highpower is excellent. It will make 300 yards look a lottttt closer. Might make you a believer in what you can really do, too; also will give you real, strictly-defined metrics on how small (or big) you can actually group at a given range from a given position.

Sorta handy. Give you a mental chart to know just how "makeable" a shot is, in the field.

If you're a good shot, you can stretch it some. If you're an excellent Shooter, you will learn not to except on a two way range.

 

[patience0830]

Come down to Wildcat (wvrpc.org) for a clinic or match this spring/summer.

Bring the AR iron upper. It's all fired at 200 & 300, and the range is fairly protected from wind, so your A1 upper will not be a liability on windage. Criterion will be plenty accurate enough...it's a 2 Minute 10-ring, 1 Minute X-ring, and a 6 Minute aiming black.

I will SUGGEST you pick up an 0.062" "National Match" front post. Compass Lake will send you one for not much. The difference in usability is MARKED.

Anyway.

CMP rimfire is good practice. Highpower is excellent. It will make 300 yards look a lottttt closer. Might make you a believer in what you can really do, too; also will give you real, strictly-defined metrics on how small (or big) you can actually group at a given range from a given position.

Sorta handy. Give you a mental chart to know just how "makeable" a shot is, in the field.

If you're a good shot, you can stretch it some. If you're an excellent Shooter, you will learn not to except on a two way range.

2 way ranges suck.

 

[YoungMilsurpGuy]

2 way ranges suck.

Well, I don't think I'm doing that with the Rifle, since I'm too old and fat to get drafted.

And with handguns it seems to be more about grip and getting a quick and sneaky draw and first round off rather then pure marksmanship.

Come down to Wildcat (wvrpc.org) for a clinic or match this spring/summer.

Bring the AR iron upper. It's all fired at 200 & 300, and the range is fairly protected from wind, so your A1 upper will not be a liability on windage. Criterion will be plenty accurate enough...it's a 2 Minute 10-ring, 1 Minute X-ring, and a 6 Minute aiming black.

I will SUGGEST you pick up an 0.062" "National Match" front post. Compass Lake will send you one for not much. The difference in usability is MARKED.

Anyway.

CMP rimfire is good practice. Highpower is excellent. It will make 300 yards look a lottttt closer. Might make you a believer in what you can really do, too; also will give you real, strictly-defined metrics on how small (or big) you can actually group at a given range from a given position.

Sorta handy. Give you a mental chart to know just how "makeable" a shot is, in the field.

If you're a good shot, you can stretch it some. If you're an excellent Shooter, you will learn not to except on a two way range.

I have actually shot at wildcat like 8-10 years ago shooting my first 3 gun match.

I remember I had a iron sighed AK where i couldn't even see the target at 300, a used mossberg shotgun where my fore end broke on the last stage and a rickety israeli capture hungarian copy of a browning hi power

I would love to come back and shoot a match or two down there

And in terms of gun, upon further research a savage 110 of some kind in .308 seeks to be the best choice. Accurate, heavy enough to practice with but not a hoss of a gun, threaded barrels, and more economical to shoot.

Probably best to either get one used or on sale and spend most of the money on glass

 

[natdscott]

Well, I don't think I'm doing that with the Rifle, since I'm too old and fat to get drafted.

And with handguns it seems to be more about grip and getting a quick and sneaky draw and first round off rather then pure marksmanship.

I have actually shot at wildcat like 8-10 years ago shooting my first 3 gun match.

I remember I had a iron sighed AK where i couldn't even see the target at 300, a used mossberg shotgun where my fore end broke on the last stage and a rickety israeli capture hungarian copy of a browning hi power

I would love to come back and shoot a match or two down there

And in terms of gun, upon further research a savage 110 of some kind in .308 seeks to be the best choice. Accurate, heavy enough to practice with but not a hoss of a gun, threaded barrels, and more economical to shoot.

Probably best to either get one used or on sale and spend most of the money on glass

Just do your research on whose scopes actually MOVE STRAIGHT, and HOLD a move.

Glass is overrated. A sighting system--of any kind--that will move precisely and hold what it was asked to hold...

...well, that cannot be overvalued. It's the only connection your bullet has to the path you need it to follow.

Lots of brands and expensive crystal actually perform like sh** in terms of just being a good sight.

I didn't realize that until I spent some time shooting tiny groups with very, very good irons. Irons that can be measured and verified to have moved or not.

Take a look here; might raise your eyebrows a bit. It's far from comprehensive--lacks target Sightrons and MicroTrac Weavers, for example-- but a decent brand coverage of modern glass.

Scope Tracking Test Results 2020

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.

www.snipershide.com

Buy adjustment accuracy and durability FIRST,
--then by glass optical quality,
--then by features (illumination, adjustable parallax, in that order),
--and only finally by objective size.

Lighter (36-44mm objectives) is better.

30mm tubes are better for durability and range of internal adjustment, but heavier.

With good mechanics, I'd hunt with a 24mm objective no-name scope rather than a really bright, huge-belled POS that won't hold what I told it to hold, or move where I need it to.



..I digress. Looksee the chart.

 

[Mij]

I have access to a barn hay loft that is in the family. Not the greatest spot in the world but it is warmer than a stand when temps get drastic during the season. Plus a heater and wind blocks.

The height of that hay loft and the door access makes it great for longer distance shots with a bi pod and a very good range finder. We measured out the nice areas that deer use and place a paper plate at each one and tried it out.

With my basic setup I would use in this one spot I am comfortable broadside to 500 yards easy. Every paper plate was fired at 3 times and all had three hits.

All that said I have never shot a deer over 100 yard shot (130 paces of mine) and I have been hunting deer since 1978 here. That barn is a very last resort for extremely cold days when you only have that day to hunt.

My closest shot was two corn rows distance from the shotgun barrel end.

All my good spots you would be lucky to see 50 yards max. I guess if you have a giant crop field maybe you would need a long range weapon to score. For me even a shotgun or handgun works well,

Yep, but that is where hunting is mistaken for freezer meat. Wife n I know which animal we are putting up months in advance. I only kill from the barn, with a cup of coffee.

This fellow doesn’t have that advantage, he’s actually hunting. Just hoping I gave my best advice. Best o luck to all.

 

[Mij]

Um . . . lemme flip over this chalkboard in the office . . .

View attachment 315507

You can’t be on the third floor in Phil’s old office. He never had that much room.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You can’t be on the third floor in Phil’s old office. He never had that much room.

Phil Smith? I was 2nd and then 1st floor in Chosnek's building after Larry died and Baldwin opened the Black Sparrow in 2005ish?

I am now on 1st floor of Loeb Building, lots of room, less aggravation. We all Fonzis now.

 

[YoungMilsurpGuy]

So forgive me for perhaps a flight of fancy but what kind of accuracy does a PTR-91/G3 do with 150 grain ammo?

Half tempted to get one since I have a bit of a collection of cold war rifles/guns going on (Polish AKm, Parts Correct AKS-74N, Air Force Slickside m16, Bulgarian 1983 makarov)

I would only need a G3, FAL, and a Hi power to complete the set

 

[Hookeye]

Some decent image scopes reportedly dont track well.

Not every friggin shot requires turret twisting for yardage. But it seems as though many Youtubers are so afflicted. Deer moved a few steps from 275 yards, gotta re-range it and adjust scope. WTH.

I havent shot a deer past 75 yards since the rifle allowance. But have shot em at 150 w shotguns and muzzleloaders. But i shot good systems and it was no big deal.

As for projectile safety....Bacastow study might be worth a look.

People still buy junk, dont practice/ shoot poorly and screw up.

The sighting systems I saw on the range before deer season.....were stupid. Hell see thru rings continue to show up.

Fudds still cling to myths.