Interesting Appleseed conversation

[Cameramonkey]

Figured this was more "funny story" territory than training, so I decided to post this in the break room instead of the training thread.


So I stopped by the Appleseed booth at the NRAAM today. Was curious what they were up to.
(paraphrased)
Rep: Hi. Are you familiar with us?
Me: I'm actually a Rifleman.
Rep: Awesome, Congrats! *handshake* Alwasys a pleasure to have Alumni stop by.
Me: Thanks. (asks innocently) So I havent seen you guys around here in a while. Are you still doing training here in the state?
Rep: Well, we cant cover all states, but we try the best we can...[insert drawn out vague as hell answer]. In all his tapdancing I dont recall him actually saying whether they still train here in the state, but looking at their event schedule, they are all on the fringe of the state, presumably using out of state instructors. So apparently they have failed (or havent tried) to recruit any instructors to replace the Indiana cadre they lost/fired/ticked off.

It was probably the most entertaining interaction today. (except for the chat with the awesome SAR USA rep who showed off some cool CZ clones)

 

[AngryRooster]

Figured this was more "funny story" territory than training, so I decided to post this in the break room instead of the training thread.


So I stopped by the Appleseed booth at the NRAAM today. Was curious what they were up to.
(paraphrased)
Rep: Hi. Are you familiar with us?
Me: I'm actually a Rifleman.
Rep: Awesome, Congrats! *handshake* Alwasys a pleasure to have Alumni stop by.
Me: Thanks. (asks innocently) So I havent seen you guys around here in a while. Are you still doing training here in the state?
Rep: Well, we cant cover all states, but we try the best we can...[insert drawn out vague as hell answer]. In all his tapdancing I dont recall him actually saying whether they still train here in the state, but looking at their event schedule, they are all on the fringe of the state, presumably using out of state instructors. So apparently they have failed (or havent tried) to recruit any instructors to replace the Indiana cadre they lost/fired/ticked off.

It was probably the most entertaining interaction today. (except for the chat with the awesome SAR USA rep who showed off some cool CZ clones)

I know something happened, but I have no idea what. Any links to the story, or a quick summary?

 

[Cameramonkey]

I know something happened, but I have no idea what. Any links to the story, or a quick summary?

Cliffs notes as I recall:
Some Central Indiana instructors made a suggestion to HQ to make improvements.
Founder got butthurt that not everyone saw his vision as gospel and would dare to challenge his wisdom.
Some were forced out, and as a result others chose to complete their commitment for the season and then left.
To my knowledge, many of the central Indiana Appleseed cadre are now instructing under the Revere's Riders umbrella.

Today if you want Appleseed training you have to go to Nappanee, Evansville, or somewhere in NWI that eludes me ATM.

Bottom line, Appleseed is still good training regardless of the politics. So is Revere's Riders. Take one, or take both. Just take it. You won't regret it. Both teach the exact same skills, techniques, and history, and both have the same goal; to make us better marksmen, while teaching us valuable history lessons.

 

[ol' Huff]

We were more southern than central and we weren't really making suggestions, we were vocally and openly critical of several facets of the organization. In a nutshell, Appleseed frequently sheds its skin due to poor organizational structure and poor leadership, and it was our time. Simultaneously and without any real coordination two gentlemen from Indiana, one from Ohio, and one from Nevada began to enthusiastically question the organization's leadership, position in the shooting world, financial standing, and training structure after the dude who runs Appleseed sunk several efforts to expand industry partnerships, promotional opportunities, and develop internal infrastructure. As things became more insistent on the part of the folks who were asking for more transparency, those four gentlemen were kicked out of the program. The following day two more were kicked out, one from Kentucky and one from Illinois. The remaining instructor corps in Indiana was upset and asked for more of an explanation and more transparency. The response was that the Indiana instructor corps was offered a loyalty oath. They could either sign the loyalty oath and remain in the program or be kicked out. No, I am not kidding. They were offered a loyalty oath by a volunteer organization for weekend shooting clinics. At that point most were fed up and many were adult enough that they refused to be treated that way for something they were not involved in. The dude who ran Appleseed is a highly paranoid type, though, and was under the impression that they couldn't be trusted to remain volunteers and not attempt some sort of rebellion (?). Anyway, before that process got very far, Appleseed ran out of patience and removed the bulk of the Indiana instructor corps. Some got out of the volunteer instructor business, some started volunteering with Revere's Riders, and two guys down in Evansville stayed with Appleseed. That was the end of it.

As I understand it, Appleseed continues to experience deep staffing issues (that was always a problem). They have begun sending out feelers to former members asking for help conducting events in neighboring states. I cannot say how that has resulted as I can expect that is a call never to be made to me, but they are limited in their personnel and demand for that kind of training is not very high so there is little incentive for them to attempt to expand much further into Indiana. The shoots in the northern part of the state are conducted by personnel from Michigan and the Evansville events are conducted by the two gentlemen who remained.

The story of exactly what happened and why can't be summed up by one person because it wasn't a coordinated thing within Indiana and those involved had dramatically different opinions and priorities. Many Revere's Riders volunteers were not directly responsible or deeply involved, they were just caught in between and just don't think much of talking about. So they aren't prone to commenting. In addition, since it wasn't coordinated, most of the communication and criticism was happening through individual phone calls, emails, or on the private side of Appleseed's forum and therefore can't really be consolidated into a full picture. As for my part, it has been several years and I see no reason to avoid talking about it. Many lessons can be learned about volunteerism, goal setting, and leadership by studying Appleseed's failure in Indiana that need not involve continued resentment or ****-talking. I believe that many people within Revere's Riders choose not to speak in detail about the circumstances that led to Appleseed kicking out an entire state because they feel it is not in service to their goals or unprofessional, but I am not deeply involved in Revere's Riders and don't carry any such compunction about criticisng or complimenting Applieseed, which I can do in equal measure.

 

[Hop]

The Appleseed booth had guns so I had to safety check them. The Brown Bess was really nice. I forgot to ask if it was an original. They did get a bit squeamish when I was asking if they planned to do any central IN classes. I handed them a Revere's Riders discount card if anyone wanted to come take a Central IN class. It was all polite.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Thanks, Huff.

Y'all are doing awesome under Revere's Riders. Hoosiers still have outstanding training opportunities thanks to you guys and we don't actually NEED Appleseed.

 

[dereedy]

Thank you for the info. I've done two Appleseed events (and it was cool to see my scores improve each time, though I'm not quite to rifleman). I've never heard of Revere's Riders before now and it's terrific to know I have more options for training events. I might go to an event or two to check it out.