Indiana Sons of Liberty

[SkullDaddy.45]

SD, you can't be a genuine "Lurker" until you go in to your User CP>Settings and turn on "Invisibility Mode". How can you expect to "lurk" when everyone can see you?!??

I lurk like I take showers buddy, , naked and with the curtains and windows open!! That's right, Extreme Lurking!! , , , wait, you mean you can see me? Like thru my iPhone or something!! ( slowly pulling pants up!)

 

[Sgtusmc]

I think many here are too quick to make the next joke. Are militias illegal? No. So shouldn't that be the end of it?

I personally don't want to belong to a militia because I don't want to find myself in somebody elses chain of command again. I don't have a problem with people joining them though. Maybe "they" are lacking skills, mindsets or experiences that only a militia can provide without having to sign a contract for X amount of years?

A militia might not be perfect. Their members might not be all cut and trim. They might not have all the get up and go intensity of a government unit, but why stop them from trying? I'm getting this feeling of hypocrisy from the nay sayers. Not every militia member is an anti-gov gun nut just as not every gun owner is a criminal. I'll admit, I know nothing about the OP's organization nor of any of their members but as far as I know, no crime has been committed.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

Are there limitations on what you would do to assist your community? I'm only asking these questions because it seemed like those guys just posted info for those interested, but were kind of ridiculed and belittled for it. If I had 10 buddies that I shot with very often, I would think we could be a force to deal with if ever needed. Still, if we were only needed to move some trees after a storm, that would be good, too. I get the joke about rank and all of that, but as they were presented, I don't see them being all that bad, as compared so others out there, who only desire to see the government fall.

I agree, nothing wrong with a few well meaning individuals forming a group to have a plan for the worst. Hell even the small insignificant little MC I use to belong to had rankings. Most was ex-military. Remember kids, use your powers for good not evil.

 

[ISL State CO]

Well, it's been forever since I've been on this site. I figured it was about time to revive this thread a little.

I started reading the first few pages and it would seem that some people here have some preconceived ideas about the ISL, that being that we're no different than any other militia group. Arron has been doing a pretty good job at answering and fielding some of the questions and comments about the ISL. But there was one comment early on that characterized the ISL as being "top heavy with officers", which triggered the question of why don't you see the latrine diggers of the group up here posting? Well, to the first part - Top Heavy - this is not the case. Currently there are just over 50 officers and over 350 members. Some of the officer positions are one-man operations with no one specifically assigned below them. The 350+ number represents only a small portion of the people that had been members. Anyone that has ever been a part of a volunteer organization understands that only a percentage of membership is truly active, with the rest only taking up roster space. The ISL has been no different, prompting us to cut loose the dead wood every month. In the past 2 years, the ISL has trimmed over 800 people from our roster for one reason or another. So even though 350+ sounds like a small number, when spread out across 92 counties, the fact of the matter is that the percentage of "active" members is rather high.

As for the second part - why don't the latrine diggers come here and post - not all militia members, as well as not all ISL members have a desire to come to a forum such as this and post comments. They usually have a list of higher priority tasks that they are attending to. However, I will say that there are a number of ISL members on this website, but instead of exposing themselves to unwarranted ridicule by being open about it, they choose to be quite about it. This is typical for many of the most popular forums - IN Shooter, AR-15, M4, etc.

Somewhere earlier in this thread, someone asked if the guy that was on the Discovery Channel show "Militia Rising" was me, and if not me then maybe is was Will Flatt of the IMC (now disbanded and inactive). Actually the individual from Indiana in Militia Rising was David Nantz of the Indiana Volunteer Militia (IVM) and Ex State Commander of the Watchmen of Indiana. I was actually contacted by the Discovery Channel to be part of that show. Needless to say, I told them where they could... I said no, we're not interested, and I'm very glad I did. The ISL doesn't grandstand. We don't use mass media (TV, radio, newspaper, etc) to get our name in front of people. We are an internet and word-of-mouth group. This keeps the riff-raff down and gives us time to do a realistic assessment of new members. We also want people to do a fair assessment of us by talking directly with us, getting to know us and the group as a whole. In other words, don't believe all the BS you read on the internet about someone without also talking to the person in question.

To address some of the training questions that I've seen pop up, here are some of the classes that we've provided training on, as well as some of classes that we've pushed our membership to take; CPR/AED, Wilderness First Aid, weather spotting, ham radio, emergency communications, CERT, incident command system (ICS), basic rifle marksmanship, Appleseed, Squad Designated Marksmen, precision rifle, tactical handgun, land navigation, aircraft and vehicle recognition, long term food storage, natural medicine, field fortifications, ghillie suit construction and employment, NRA RSO course, traps and snares, knots and lashings, combat/defensive pistol, fire starting, combat lifesaver, triage, LPOP, etc. Plus there's all of the various events that we've held; range days, cook outs, movie nights, meetings, meet and greets, communications exercises, camp outs, gear checks, mobilization exercises, hikes, bike rides, sand bagging operations, severe weather assistance and rescuing (like during last years snow event), etc. We push community involvement hard, and like during last years "polar vortex", we had people stranded in cars, people were without heat in their homes, and when the snow started to melt and the rain came on top of that, we dealt with the flooding by helping out local Emergency Management agencies with sand bagging operations. We've helped a few needy families out with food, and in a couple of instances, even money. This year, we've started to help with Christmas gifts by donating time and money to help out a few local non-militia organization. We also have published manuals on our website, most of which have an associated knowledge test online. Tests, training (past and present) and participation levels all have a specific point value in the ISL. Those points are used to determine rank. The higher the number of points you earn, the higher in rank you are.

One of the core philosophies of the ISL is that we lead from the front and lead by example. There is only one "Commander" and that's my title, even though I'm not terribly fond of it. All other ISL officer positions are "Leaders". A lot of the prior service military members have a very difficult time divorcing themselves from the military terminology. The reason that we have "Leaders" is that the ISL is a volunteer organization and people choose to follow the Leader, rather than fear punishment from something like the UCMJ. The rank point system mentioned above is used to motivate people to be active in the ISL. If they are not and a member shows no activity at all, we cut them loose. We run a tight ship. Screw ups and misfits get weeded out pretty quick.

Ok, I'm done rambling. Sorry for taking up so much bandwidth with this post.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

I understand your wanting to avoid the media hype, but to my thinking a little positive exposure is what any militia would want. Much of what is heard of any militia group is stereotypically negative. The very use of the word "militia" is almost became a slam on any group. I think people would love to find out more about groups that are training to help out their fellow man, and training to help defend against bad guys, but it just seems everyone involved is acting like it's all secret squirrel stuff. I'm thinking maybe if militia groups embraced a little exposure, and maybe concentrated a little more on support efforts, the public view of them may come around. Members could still train for self defense, but maybe lay off so much training for offensive operations. Being secretive, AND training to go on the offense is not what people what to here of a group.

 

[freekforge]

Not trying to start anything but if people are afraid of punishment from the ucmj they are not the people i want to hang around since they must have a reason to fear it. the ucmj isn't there to punish good soldiers.

 

[223 Gunner]

Not trying to start anything but if people are afraid of punishment from the ucmj they are not the people i want to hang around since they must have a reason to fear it. the ucmj isn't there to punish good soldiers.

I think the message he was trying to convey, is that the leaders are well liked, and not in their position by using intimidation. The UCMJ should be left in the military where you are dealing with a much larger number of people. Much like laws that we live with here in the civilian world. In the military UCMJ is needed because you are likely to have a larger number of knuckle heads, especially in the ARMY. USMC, Navy and Air Force, not so much.

 

[ISL State CO]

I understand your wanting to avoid the media hype, but to my thinking a little positive exposure is what any militia would want. Much of what is heard of any militia group is stereotypically negative. The very use of the word "militia" is almost became a slam on any group. I think people would love to find out more about groups that are training to help out their fellow man, and training to help defend against bad guys, but it just seems everyone involved is acting like it's all secret squirrel stuff. I'm thinking maybe if militia groups embraced a little exposure, and maybe concentrated a little more on support efforts, the public view of them may come around. Members could still train for self defense, but maybe lay off so much training for offensive operations. Being secretive, AND training to go on the offense is not what people what to here of a group.

You touched on 2 very important points in your first couple sentences; 1) Militia groups would love some positive exposure, and 2) most everything you hear about the militia is "stereotypically negative". This isn't necessarily the fault of the militia group, although sometimes it is. But just like all of the rioting that we're seeing sensationalized on TV today, anytime the media gets an opportunity to sell their hyped up product (news <sic>), they will do everything possible to gain market share. Mass media outlets are money making ventures - they rarely do anything to actually report facts anymore. The members of the ISL understand this and we want nothing to do with it. We aren't going to put ourselves into a position where the Liberal press can use us to line their own pockets. I have also been contacted by MSNBC, channel 8 out of Indy, and the Journal Gazette news paper in Ft. Wayne - turned them all down. The ONLY person that seemed to genuinely give 2 rips about the ISL, or the militia in general, was Brad Edwards from channel 8. All of the other media contacts that I'd had in the past had a political agenda/tone about them. I even went as far to inform them that until they read a little history and understand where the militia came from, that I wouldn't be doing any interviews. I haven't been contacted since.

 

[ISL State CO]

Not trying to start anything but if people are afraid of punishment from the ucmj they are not the people i want to hang around since they must have a reason to fear it. the ucmj isn't there to punish good soldiers.

I think the message he was trying to convey, is that the leaders are well liked, and not in their position by using intimidation. The UCMJ should be left in the military where you are dealing with a much larger number of people. Much like laws that we live with here in the civilian world. In the military UCMJ is needed because you are likely to have a larger number of knuckle heads, especially in the ARMY. USMC, Navy and Air Force, not so much.

223 Gunner is correct - the Leaders are well liked.

Since the militia is all volunteer, those who are in the ISL want to be in the ISL. The members that cause problems or are inactive, we basically throw them out. It's a pretty simple filtering process. Other than throwing someone out of the ISL, we have no other power over someone else. Mutual respect, understanding, friendship, trust, etc., that's the glue that holds all militia groups together.

 

[churchmouse]

Just watching.....

 

[ISL State CO]

I had a thought last night after my initial posting... Someone mentioned the Indiana Guard Reserve. Now I know for a FACT that there are IGR personnel that are on this forum, which is why I think the earlier "join the IGR" comment was made. I personally know SEVERAL prominent, ranking members of the IGR. I work with them every year at various events around the state. Except for 2 Brigades (30 to 50 members) in northern Indiana, the IGR doesn't hardly do Jack. Not only that, but the IGR only has about 150 members statewide. And thirdly, and this is the big one, their mission does NOT have anything even remotely associated with weapons or combat. The 2 Brigades that are active, they have taken it upon themselves to be well trained in search and rescue, and they have a SAR exercise every month, which I think is fantastic!!! Good job IGR! Now except for the group of SAR personnel and the occasional crowd/traffic control detail at a special event, the only other thing the IGR does is man national guard armories while the NG unit is deployed. In my eyes, the IGR is a limited resource. I don't have anything personal against the IGR, I have several friends in the IGR, but it's not for me - they aren't active enough, they're not big enough, and they're not technically/tactically diverse enough. With the IGR only having about 150 total members, that's barely more than 1 person per county. The ISL has members in 75 of the 92 counties, making our membership density a lot higher than the IGR. Just saying...

 

[ISL State CO]

..

 

[churchmouse]

I had a thought last night after my initial posting... Someone mentioned the Indiana Guard Reserve. Now I know for a FACT that there are IGR personnel that are on this forum, which is why I think the earlier "join the IGR" comment was made. I personally know SEVERAL prominent, ranking members of the IGR. I work with them every year at various events around the state. Except for 2 Brigades (30 to 50 members) in northern Indiana, the IGR doesn't hardly do Jack. Not only that, but the IGR only has about 150 members statewide. And thirdly, and this is the big one, their mission does NOT have anything even remotely associated with weapons or combat. The 2 Brigades that are active, they have taken it upon themselves to be well trained in search and rescue, and they have a SAR exercise every month, which I think is fantastic!!! Good job IGR! Now except for the group of SAR personnel and the occasional crowd/traffic control detail at a special event, the only other thing the IGR does is man national guard armories while the NG unit is deployed. In my eyes, the IGR is a limited resource. I don't have anything personal against the IGR, I have several friends in the IGR, but it's not for me - they aren't active enough, they're not big enough, and they're not technically/tactically diverse enough. With the IGR only having about 150 total members, that's barely more than 1 person per county. The ISL has members in 75 of the 92 counties, making our membership density a lot higher than the IGR. Just saying...

Got it the 1st time.....

 

[ISL State CO]

For those that are trying to PM me, since I only have 10, 11, 12 posts, and I need 50 to reply to a PM, sorry, can't reply at this time.

 

[223 Gunner]

Just watching.....

Are you waiting to see what the Army Dogs have to say about my comment?

 

[chezuki]

LT6>ISL

 

[singlesix]

For those that are trying to PM me, since I only have 10, 11, 12 posts, and I need 50 to reply to a PM, sorry, can't reply at this time.

Ah now I see why this old thread got bumped, you're trying to get your 50 Quality Posts so you can bid on something in the classified sections, come on fess up.

 

[GIJEW]

Aaron, I'm jumping without reading about 1/2 of the responses so maybe this has been addressed: 1)You said one of the reasons for the ISL is to defend the state against invasion, yet you say the ISL would never TRESPASS even in combat against those invaders 2)You said there is no oath etc and members are free to come and go, even in combat. Given points 1&2 I just can't take the ISL seriously as a defensive force for the state. If that is your intention you really should just reenlist. You did mention a priority list of family; community; state, so like some others have said just forming a "mutual support group" sounds more appropriate. Anyway, IIRC SCOTUS ruled in the late 19th century, that PRIVATE militias are not constitutional. Nothing personal, you sound like a good neighbor to someone, I just think the enterprise doesn't make sense.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Private militias are not Constitutional, or not legal?

 

[churchmouse]

Are you waiting to see what the Army Dogs have to say about my comment?

Just watching to see where this goes. Laying low.
Interesting topic.