Indiana LTCH Training Requirements

[Joe Williams]

snip
As far a leaving the Feds out.....well you brought them in when you bought from a dealer.

But we don't have to buy from a dealer, and very often don't.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The time is going to come around when they actually have use it to defend theirself and they are going to miss because they have NO training what so ever and they're going to hit an innocent bystandard

Let's leave the police out of this. We are talking about LTCH from which LEOs are exempt.

Law, there is a far easier regime, simply enforce the licenses of all states via full faith and credit clause. We could tie it to federal funding (highway money) of some type to ensure compliance in Illinois or New Jersey.

 

[Joe Williams]

Let's leave the police out of this. We are talking about LTCH from which LEOs are exempt.

Law, there is a far easier regime, simply enforce the licenses of all states via full faith and credit clause. We could tie it to federal funding (highway money) of some type to ensure compliance in Illinois or New Jersey.

I've long wondered why this hasn't been done before when a permit holder gets busted.

 

[Josh Ward]

You people who think training should required are trampling over our 2A rights.

There are no issues with licenced IN gun toters that requires attention. Blood is not running in the streets as people get into gunfights over minor arguments. We are a responsible people. We do not neet the state qualifying us to be able to perform our god given right of self defense.

Stop trying to "fix" a problem THAT DOES NOT EXIST.

Edit: When I say "You people" I am referring to the people who voted Yes in the poll but apparently didn't bother to type out a rationale in this thread. They remain annonymous.

Bravo!!! If it ain't broke don't fix it........well, on second thought it IS broke. We shouldn't HAVE to have the LTCH to protect ourselves.

I kinda dig Alaska, don't need one to carry in state, but one is avalible for reciprocy in other states....

 

[Paco Bedejo]

If some of you travel to other states so frequently, leave my crap alone & petition the legislatures in the states which you frequent to offer non-resident licenses...or even to drop all requirements other than US Citizenship.

The fact is that our 2A rights shouldn't be restricted at all anywhere in the Union. The solution is definitely not to restrict our rights further...

 

[rambone]

If we are going to force citizens to pay for permission to exercise rights, and force them to be taught how to exercise them... We might as we force them to get a training course on the U.S. Constitution. But that would sort of defeat the purpose of the whole document, wouldn't it?


I am a lot more terrified of people who would willingly try to harm another, than I am the off-chance that someone would have an accidental discharge with their firearm.


I answered No, I don't support Gun Control.

 

[rambone]

How many yes voters (in the poll above) have a Utah/Florida permit?

How long has the Utah/Florida permit been around and how many times has someone or some group tried to use the "required training" to outlaw carrying altogether?

Just because we have to jump through a bunch of bull***t hoops exercise rights around the country, does not mean we agree with their existence, or want to create more hoops.

As someone else mentioned, if you travel to other states so often, how about campaigning for those states to reduce their limitations on carry, rather than asking Hoosiers to increase ours?? Ask those states to honor the Indiana LTCH.

Ok, well I know this is going to start a bunch of **** but here goes.
We need a Federal Issued license that ALL states MUST honor. To obtain this Federal license you would be bound to regualtions as Police officers are. Any guns you want to carry, you MUST qualify with. If you can't hit the target, you can't carry it for personal defence (Hunting, target shooting and all that stuff would still be ok). The guns you qualify with would be listed on the back of the license. I'm not saying give "Big Brother" a list of every gun we own, not by any means. I know a bunch of people don't want the goverment to know about what and all the guns we own but you and I both know they have a very good idea what we have. The fact that you ever applyed for a hunting license is tip #1 there may be a gun in your home. Tip #2, you applied for a carry permit. And theres tip #3, remember the paperwork you filled out so you could take your new gun home from the dealer? Well a copy of that goes to the ATF, a Federal Goverment Agencey. If for some reason the ATF didn't get that paperwork, there's the phone call to N.C.I.C. the dealer made where he gave all your info to them so you may actually take your new gun home. All that is kept on file at yet, Another Goverment Agency.

Here's the main reason I think you must qualify with your weapon before you can carry it for person protection. There's someone out there (and probably one in every town) thats carrying the bigest, most powerful handgun they could get ahold of because of some "Shoot 'em up" movie or movies they watch all the time and the think guns are "cool" and haven't really earned a respect for them yet. The time is going to come around when they actually have use it to defend theirself and they are going to miss because they have NO training what so ever and they're going to hit an innocent bystandard.

That is probably the worst idea I have heard regarding LTCH. Worse than the content of this poll. Talk about a stepping stone towards further Federal restrictions! How about we just create a Federal Gun Registry while we are at it!?

As far a leaving the Feds out.....well you brought them in when you bought from a dealer.

Just because the Feds stuck their nose in this far, does not mean we like it or want them to dive in deeper! We did not bring them in, they forced their way in to the situation!!



Who needs the Brady Campaign when our 33% of our own site supports further Gun Control. Don't worry folks, just one more infringement... then we'll stop.

 

[dbd870]

Let's say Indiana did away with the LTCH. Would anyone get behind requiring someone who purchases a handgun being required to take a safety class? Again...if the LTCH requirement was lifted.

Nope - just a different infringement. The road of turning it from a right to a privledge has already been walked way too far down.

 

[LawDog76]

Maybe I need to outline this a little better

Keep our state issued License. This Federal License would be for people like myself that travel out of state on a regular basis and we wouldn't have to worry about which state honors what.

Federal SHALL ISSUE License
ALL states Must honor.
Can only be revoked for Violent crime and Felony CONVICTIONS (Just like Indiana does already)

#1 Pass the criminal background check (Just like Indiana does already)
#2 Pass a simple shooting course with the guns you want to carry using a solute target(So states like Ohio can't argue that we don't know how to use our weapons.)
Target one - 50ft 6 rounds into the target under 2 min. All rounds must hit the target
Target two - 25ft 6 rounds into the target under 2 min. All rounds must hit the primary target area.
#3 The Guns you qualified are the only you can carry for self defense and will be listed on the back of the permit. Name, model, and caliber.

Example –
Walther P99 40 Cal
Glock 19 9mm
Ruger Super Black Hawk 44 Mag

Test could be given at local gun club or firing range by any FFL holder

Cap the cost the FFL holder could charge at $20 (Not like you're going to be there all day. A person should be in and out in less than a hour.)

This License would have nothing to with any other guns you want to keep in your home. Nothing to do with the gun you hunt with, and nothing to do with any gun you are transporting to a gun club or firing range.

 

[indytechnerd]

Mandatory training is not the way to go, not only because of the .gov being all up in my business, but because of the abuse it would lead to. Joe Schmoe opens his 'hand gun training facility' and fires up his laser printer, printing certificates of completion. You throw him a couple hundred bucks, he writes your name in the blank and signs the cert. Congratulations, you're 'trained'.

State run training, through ISP or whatever, is an even bigger pile of .

While I would support an expanded reciprocity through voluntary training, which the FL/UT license classes basically are, training is not the means to this end.

Now, if ISP wants to have flyers with LOCAL individuals or companies offering NRA (or GOA or whatever) approved training and wants to put a flyer in each LTCH envelope with the recommendation that the newly licensed individual seek out training, then I'll buy the first box of paper used to print them.

 

[rambone]

Maybe I need to outline this a little better

What is the source of your faith and trust in the Federal Government?

That which Feds giveth, the Feds can taketh away.

Now, if ISP wants to have flyers with LOCAL individuals or companies offering NRA (or GOA or whatever) approved training and wants to put a flyer in each LTCH envelope with the recommendation that the newly licensed individual seek out training, then I'll buy the first box of paper used to print them.

Good suggestion.

 

[Joe Williams]

Maybe I need to outline this a little better

Keep our state issued License. This Federal License would be for people like myself that travel out of state on a regular basis and we wouldn't have to worry about which state honors what.
snip

Ahhh. You are talking about an optional licence.

I still think the better course is to require states to honor the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution.

 

[LawDog76]

So instead of the most commonly used armed felon/officer safety argument, you've chosen the public safety/incompetent handler argument. The many variations of these are the main reasons we're where we are right now with the licensing and registration schemes. Take away the rights of the many, because of the actions of the few. No, worse - take away the rights of the many because of the potential actions of the few. This is what you're advocating, because "there's someone out there who might..."

The people shall have a right to bear arms. You either believe in it - or you don't.

Basically in that statement I was singling out people like my brother-in-law. We live in a town with a population of about 6,000. Two businesses were robbed here recently and the first thing he does is runs out and buy the Glock 20 thats been converted to the GI 50 round. He have never owned or fired a handgun before. His hands shake all the time from all the energy drink and other stuff takes on a daily basis. He's owned his new Glock for about 5 months now and he has NOT fired one round through it. He carries it around all the time acting like Billy bad a$$ say first chance he gets he going to blow someone's head off. I like said, there at least one in every town.


Now tell me MCT, do you want a guy like this walking around out in public with YOUR family around. I don't. I don't even allow my kids anywhere near him anymore.

 

[Joe Williams]

Basically in that statement I was singling out people like my brother-in-law. We live in a town with a population of about 6,000. Two businesses were robbed here recently and the first thing he does is runs out and buy the Glock 20 thats been converted to the GI 50 round. He have never owned or fired a handgun before. His hands shake all the time from all the energy drink and other stuff takes on a daily basis. He's owned his new Glock for about 5 months now and he has NOT fired one round through it. He carries it around all the time acting like Billy bad a$$ say first chance he gets he going to blow someone's head off. I like said, there at least one in every town.


Now tell me MCT, do you want a guy like this walking around out in public with YOUR family around. I don't. I don't even allow my kids anywhere near him anymore.

But.... why should we take your word he's unfit to carry a gun, vs his word that you are not fit to carry a gun?

Do you really think we should dole out Constitutional rights on the basis of whether or not people like you?

 

[LawDog76]

Ahhh. You are talking about an optional licence.

I still think the better course is to require states to honor the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution.

I agree with you 100% but you know states like Ohio are going to fight it. Actually until a few years ago, Ohio only let Police and Military carry waepons. Thats how anti 2nd amendment they are.

 

[LawDog76]

But.... why should we take your word he's unfit to carry a gun, vs his word that you are not fit to carry a gun?

Do you really think we should dole out Constitutional rights on the basis of whether or not people like you?

I'm not saying he's unfit to carry I just don't want to find out first hand. If hes going to carry a gun I think he should atleast take it upon himself to go out and practice with it. Not his best to keep it "SHOW ROOM" condition. He needs to earn the respect of the gun

 

[rambone]

Basically in that statement I was singling out people like my brother-in-law.

Maybe it could be your civic duty to take this man shooting and teach him about guns.

 

[Joe Williams]

Maybe it could be your civic duty to take this man shooting and teach him about guns.

Gotta spread it around before you get more.

 

[Bill of Rights]

You have a choice of two answers. You may choose

• No. OR
• Hell no.

If my rights to protect my life and those of my family are subject to meeting some arbitrary "training requirements" dreamed up by some pencil-neck in an overpriced suit, I'd like to know said pencil-neck's "training requirements" to be allowed a jury trial, protection from self-incrimination, and cruel and/or unusual punishments? That is, if this nimrod wants to put me and mine in jeopardy, I should be within my rights to exact retribution for that action. It should not be a problem for me to give said person a fair trial, then proceed directly to the hangin' tree.

And that answer should be clear enough that even the brain-numbed morons who propose bills like this can understand it.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[LawDog76]

Maybe it could be your civic duty to take this man shooting and teach him about guns.

Hes gotta want to practice first. You can learn if you don't practice