Indiana Constitutional Carry double edge law...

[bobzilla]

Would walk? So the cops did a bad job on the case? Why would they walk?

Likely because the worthless prosecutors don’t want to be deemed racist for prosecuting these people so they let them walk or plead down to a lesser charge and sent on their way with time served. But you already knew that and choose to ignore it.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Much like the ******** kirks buddy’s in the media saying OMG! 70 percent of the arrests in Fergeson MO are black! Nevering Fing mind that that demographic makes up 80 percent of the population.

Ferguson? Missouri? Not familiar, but here in Indiana we have stats showing that the criminal law is used disproportionately against racial minorities, such as the License to Carry a Handgun. Just in West Lafayette one was 17 times more likely to be arrested if African-American.

After Chief Justice Rush's letter decrying the systemic racism in June 2020 on the criminal justice system I called out for local rules to ensure accounting of arrests, prosecutions, use of the habitual offender enhancement, inter alia.

We cannot address what we cannot measure. Let's go get good consistent data and then we can address the problems we need to fix.

It is time to stop treating racial minorities as some sort of Other as Chief Justice Rush said, they have the same rights as all Americans, let's start acting like it.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Likely because the worthless prosecutors don’t want to be deemed racist for prosecuting these people so they let them walk or plead down to a lesser charge and sent on their way with time served. But you already knew that and choose to ignore it.

If the prosecutor is worthless, then the people of the county should unelect him or her.

If the prosecutor takes charges of racism to heart then as they say in the South, the hit dog yelps, and that prosecutor should stop being racist trash and the people should unelect him or her.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Yes, because cash bond adversely impacts racial minorities far more than the majority population. It's not a secret.

So is murder being a crime racist as well? It disproportionately effects racial minority far more than the majority population. Along with several other crimes.

Disproportionate effect does not equal racist.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Just read another post from you Kirk, from shitcago huh never would have guessed.

I don't believe he is from Cago, he did live there for a couple of years while going to college.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So is murder being a crime racist as well? It disproportionately effects racial minority far more than the majority population. Along with several other crimes.

Disproportionate effect does not equal racist.

Certainly false accusations of all kinds of crimes including Murder disproportionately affect racial minorities. However, that does not have to do anything with bond for misdemeanor offenses.

Disproportionate effect is the test that Chief Justice Rush used. I agree it does not always equate to racism but there better be a reason.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Certainly false accusations of all kinds of crimes including Murder disproportionately affect racial minorities. However, that does not have to do anything with bond for misdemeanor offenses.

Disproportionate effect is the test that Chief Justice Rush used. I agree it does not always equate to racism but there better be a reason.

I wasn't talking false accusations. I'm talking about those that actually commit murder. Racial minorities commit murder at a very disproportionate rate. So therefor criminalizing murder must be racist since it has a disproportionate effect on racial minorities. That is using your logic anyway. And I know that CJ Rush used it as well, doesn't mean I agree with it.

 

[manifest destiny]

Racial minorities commit murder at a very disproportionate rate. So therefor criminalizing murder must be racist since it has a disproportionate effect on racial minorities.

This. The statistics also demonstrate that the victims are disproportionately minorities.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I wasn't talking false accusations. I'm talking about those that actually commit murder. Racial minorities commit murder at a very disproportionate rate. So therefor criminalizing murder must be racist since it has a disproportionate effect on racial minorities. That is using your logic anyway. And I know that CJ Rush used it as well, doesn't mean I agree with it.

What is analogous would be letting Whites out of jail for Murder without paying bond while Blacks are held without bail.

 

[chipbennett]

******** Kirk! These assholes would walk and you know it. Don’t want jail time? Stop breaking the ****ing law!!!!!!

At what point does this have anything at all to do with...

[looks at thread title]

...Indiana Constitutional Carry?

 

[KellyinAvon]

 

[Timjoebillybob]

What is analogous would be letting Whites out of jail for Murder without paying bond while Blacks are held without bail.

Are whites let out on OR while blacks have to pay a cash bail? With all things being equal that is, crime accused of, previous offenses, ties to the community, employed or not, etc.

If so then there may be some racism going on, but that doesn't mean that cash bail is inherently racist.

At what point does this have anything at all to do with...

[looks at thread title]

...Indiana Constitutional Carry?

You must be new here. Welcome, I'm TJBB.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

At what point does this have anything at all to do with...

[looks at thread title]

...Indiana Constitutional Carry?

The OP raised a concern over Illinois instituting bond reform.

1. Bond reform is not scary.

2. Bond reform is needed and some form should be implemented in Indiana (likely a county by county concern).

3. Fox News is scaring people and should be taken with several grains of salt.

 

[KLB]

Are whites let out on OR while blacks have to pay a cash bail? With all things being equal that is, crime accused of, previous offenses, ties to the community, employed or not, etc.

If so then there may be some racism going on, but that doesn't mean that cash bail is inherently racist.


You must be new here. Welcome, I'm TJBB.

Take race out of the equation. Should a poor person be punished for being poor? Using someone's economic status to try to force them into a plea deal seems really wrong to me.

I'd add a provision to the law that says "if someone skips out after being let out, if they are arrested again they are held.

 

[manifest destiny]

2. Bond reform is needed and some form should be implemented in Indiana

I can agree to this. I do agree with this. But not for any reason that has to do with race. Maybe minority status should be based on individual economics. Oprah Winfrey is being held back because she's black. O' Great One claims to be black, he was elected as president - by an overwhelming number of non minorities. However, dirty, diseased, illiterate, non minority, little Timmy, with his dope head parents, od'ing in their car on the same block they bought the dope, in front of Timmy.... Let's just say Timmy isn't getting the benefit of "privilege". Everything is not about race. Perhaps those that think everything is about race are the true racists.

 

[bobzilla]

When everything is about race, nothing is.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I take this a completely different way... much is made about people being "presumed innocent" until proven guilty in a court of law. That's true and how it should be for our legal/jury system when the case gets to court in front of a jury... the prosecutor has to prove guilt.

However, people held on bail are not "presumed innocent". They are "presumed guilty" by probable cause otherwise they should be released and the charges dropped. And probable cause hearings are due process.

If the allegation is that innocent people are languishing in jail awaiting trial (for whatever reason, not just bail), then I'd say (and I do say) that PROBABLE CAUSE HEARING reform is in order.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Cash bonds are used to inherent advance racist interests just as license to carry are used to advance systemic racism. Cash bonds are used to impact those on the lower end of the SES which are disproportionately racial minorities.

Prosecutors know that keeping people in jail will lead to more guilty pleas rather than trials so they oppose the elimination of cash bond. No one who has been involved in the criminal justice system, outside of police unions, denies the racial disparity. We all know why cash bond is used, to force pleas, and it negatively impacts racial minorities.

As yourself how it is fair that people on federal felonies walk out of jail on signatures while those with misdemeanor Theft or Criminal Trespass malinger in jail as they cannot afford $500 for bond?

https://bfi.uchicago.edu/wp-content/uploads/BFI_WP_2020331.pdf

How the Cash Bail System Endangers the Health of Black Americans

Once locked up, many people must pay cash bail to be released from detention. The amount of bail is determined by the court. Research suggests racial bias against Black defendants plays a part in the level of bail set by the court. At a time when jails and prisons across the U.S. have seen...

www.commonwealthfund.org

The Racist Fearmongering Campaigns Against Bail Reform, Explained

The pattern of reform and fearmongering is the latest example of lawmakers weaponizing the age-old false connection between race, fear, and criminality.

theappeal.org

Kirk, I read some of the links you posted... the Common Wealth link, an article just 2 years old, made some bold claims... but the links to the pertinent studies they purport to support their claims were DEAD links. They didn't list the study and author, but I found it anyhow... not available for public viewing. Hmmmm... not very helpful rendering it just an opinion piece.

The link to The Appeal persuaded me in EXACTLY the opposite direction it intended. It portrayed Texas and Governor Abbott as engaging in a "Racist Fearmongering Campaign" by introducing "the Damon Allen Act, HB 20, named after a police officer who was allegedly shot and killed during a traffic stop by a man released on bond."

In the 17 months since that article, Dabrett Black was found guilty of capital murder and sentenced to life without patrol, the death penalty negotiated away in exchange for no insanity defense.

So, Abbott's bond reform was not what The Appeal was hoping for (eliminating cash bonds) but was directed at people who are a danger to society who should not be bonded... so you either accept dead cops and dead civilians, or it's racist fearmongering? B******t!

'He was murdered while doing his job, protecting the citizens of Texas' | Trooper Damon Allen's wife testifies to state lawmakers

Kasey Allen's husband was killed by a man that had already attacked law enforcement twice but got out on bond. A new bill could have kept him locked up.

www.kcentv.com

So, anyhow, the articles you presented influenced me against what you're proposing.

 

[chipbennett]

Are whites let out on OR while blacks have to pay a cash bail? With all things being equal that is, crime accused of, previous offenses, ties to the community, employed or not, etc.

If so then there may be some racism going on, but that doesn't mean that cash bail is inherently racist.


You must be new here. Welcome, I'm TJBB.

Off-topic discussions are par for the course. But when they delve into irrelevant questions of racism, they tend to lead threads into bad places. If they want to talk about bacon, or pineapple on pizza? Great.

 

[chipbennett]

The OP raised a concern over Illinois instituting bond reform.

1. Bond reform is not scary.

2. Bond reform is needed and some form should be implemented in Indiana (likely a county by county concern).

3. Fox News is scaring people and should be taken with several grains of salt.

That all sounds like a great topic of discussion... for its own discussion thread.