Here come the Biden gun control EOs...

[NoGoJoe]

I could easily make an argument for the practicality of AC or a big screen TV.... Frankly I'm not for or against bump-stocks, I'm just trying to create a better informed opinion on the items.

 

[KG1]

Someone gave one answer above, I'll give a similar one here. President issues and executive order (more likely and executive action but potato potato) telling the BATFECES to look back into or "circle back to" pistol braces, they do and decide they are not just a brace but a stock. Now anyone who has one on a pistol with less than a 16" barrel is in possession of an unregistered and untaxed short barrel rifle. Pretty much the same thing that happened with bumpstocks.

For 80% lowers similar, BATFECES decides they made a mistake that an 80% lower is "readily convertible" to be able to be turned into a firearm. Don't think it would effect the current owners of them but it might, I don't think that if an FFL transfers a firearm without doing the necessary paperwork and such it fall on the consumer but. At the very least they could decide that a 50% lower is what is required without it being "readily convertible". Worse they can decide that the manufactures are unlicensed FFLs and prosecute them for at least that. Worst case again.

Those are two I can think of off the top of my head, I'm sure if you would like I could come up with others.

Biden has hand picked his ATF toadie to do just this. Reclassify everything they want to get rid of. It's nothing but an attempt to take Executive action and bypass the Congressional legislative process..

 

[maxwelhse]

Well now, everyone will forget my "valid arguments".
All that work... wasted.

I fear only the converted were listening to the sermon.

 

[BigRed]

At the risk of being unpopular, other than demonstrating good ingenuity, what practical purpose does a bump stock serve?

Supressing fire.

Why does it matter?

 

[armalitesheepdog]

The phrase is lifted directly from Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals. That shows how pervasive socialist activism has become; it has entered the mainstream and is now commonly accepted as being a sole legitimate purpose and justification for violent action.

Makes perfect sense. Now I get it.
And hate it even more

 

[actaeon277]

Here’s a Timeline of the Major Gun Control Laws in America

A rundown of the most important events influencing Federal gun policy

time.com

1791​

On Dec. 15, 1791, ten amendments to the U.S. Constitution — eventually known as the Bill of Rights — were ratified. The second of them said: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

1934​

The first piece of national gun control legislation was passed on June 26, 1934. The National Firearms Act (NFA) — part of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s “New Deal for Crime“— was meant to curtail “gangland crimes of that era such as the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre.”


The NFA imposed a tax on the manufacturing, selling, and transporting of firearms listed in the law, among them short-barrel shotguns and rifles, machine guns, firearm mufflers and silencers. Due to constitutional flaws, the NFA was modified several times. The $200 tax, which was high for the era, was put in place to curtail the transfer of these weapons.

1938​

The Federal Firearms Act (FFA) of 1938 required gun manufacturers, importers, and dealers to obtain a federal firearms license. It also defined a group of people, including convicted felons, who could not purchase guns, and mandated that gun sellers keep customer records. The FFA was repealed in 1968 by the Gun Control Act (GCA), though many of its provisions were reenacted by the GCA.

1939​

In 1939 the U.S. Supreme Court heard the case United States v. Miller, ruling that through the National Firearms Act of 1934, Congress could regulate the interstate selling of a short barrel shotgun. The court stated that there was no evidence that a sawed off shotgun “has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia,” and thus “we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument.”

1968​

Following the assassinations of President John F. Kennedy, Attorney General and U.S. Senator Robert F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., President Lyndon B. Johnson pushed for the passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968. The GCA repealed and replaced the FFA, updated Title II of the NFA to fix constitutional issues, added language about “destructive devices” (such as bombs, mines and grenades) and expanded the definition of “machine gun.”




Overall the bill banned importing guns that have “no sporting purpose,” imposed age restrictions for the purchase of handguns (gun owners had to be 21), prohibited felons, the mentally ill, and others from purchasing guns, required that all manufactured or imported guns have a serial number, and according to the ATF, imposed “stricter licensing and regulation on the firearms industry.”

1986​

In 1986 the Firearm Owners Protection Act was passed by Congress. The law mainly enacted protections for gun owners — prohibiting a national registry of dealer records, limiting ATF inspections to once per year (unless there are multiple infractions), softening what is defined as “engaging in the business” of selling firearms, and allowing licensed dealers to sell firearms at “gun shows” in their state. It also loosened regulations on the sale and transfer of ammunition.


The bill also codified some gun control measures, including expanding the GCA to prohibit civilian ownership or transfer of machine guns made after May 19, 1986, and redefining “silencer” to include parts intended to make silencers.

1993​

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 is named after White House press secretary James Brady, who was permanently disabled from an injury suffered during an attempt to assassinate President Ronald Reagan. (Brady died in 2014). It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton. The law, which amends the GCA, requires that background checks be completed before a gun is purchased from a licensed dealer, manufacturer or importer. It established the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which is maintained by the FBI.

1994​

Tucked into the sweeping and controversial Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, signed by President Clinton in 1994, is the subsection titled Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act. This is known as the assault weapons ban — a temporary prohibition in effect from September of 1994 to September of 2004. Multiple attempts to renew the ban have failed.


The provisions of the bill outlawed the ability to “manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon,” unless it was “lawfully possessed under Federal law on the date of the enactment of this subsection.” Nineteen military-style or “copy-cat” assault weapons—including AR-15s, TEC-9s, MAC-10s, etc.—could not be manufactured or sold. It also banned “certain high-capacity ammunition magazines of more than ten rounds,” according to a U.S. Department of Justice Fact Sheet.

2003​

The Tiahrt Amendment, proposed by Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.), prohibited the ATF from publicly releasing data showing where criminals purchased their firearms and stipulated that only law enforcement officers or prosecutors could access such information.


“The law effectively shields retailers from lawsuits, academic study and public scrutiny,” The Washington Post wrote in 2010. “It also keeps the spotlight off the relationship between rogue gun dealers and the black market in firearms.”


There have been efforts to repeal this amendment.

2005​

In 2005, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act was signed by President George W. Bush to prevent gun manufacturers from being named in federal or state civil suits by those who were victims of crimes involving guns made by that company.


The first provision of this law is “to prohibit causes of action against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and importers of firearms or ammunition products, and their trade associations, for the harm solely caused by the criminal or unlawful misuse of firearm products or ammunition products by others when the product functioned as designed and intended.” It also dismissed pending cases on October 26, 2005.

2008​

District of Columbia v. Heller essentially changed a nearly 70-year precedent set by Miller in 1939. While the Miller ruling focused on the “well regulated militia” portion of the Second Amendment (known as the “collective rights theory” and referring to a state’s right to defend itself), Heller focused on the “individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia.”


Heller challenged the constitutionality of a 32-year-old handgun ban in Washington, D.C., and found, “The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment.”


It did not however nullify other gun control provisions. “The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms,” stated the ruling.






This is "WHY"
Cause EVERY TIME we "compromise" we lose more.
And it's NEVER ENOUGH.
NEVER.


Time to STOP GIVING IN.

 

[BigRed]

Here’s a Timeline of the Major Gun Control Laws in America

A rundown of the most important events influencing Federal gun policy

time.com

1791​

On Dec. 15, 1791, ten amendments to the U.S. Constitution — eventually known as the Bill of Rights — were ratified. The second of them said: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

1934​

The first piece of national gun control legislation was passed on June 26, 1934. The National Firearms Act (NFA) — part of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s “New Deal for Crime“— was meant to curtail “gangland crimes of that era such as the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre.”


The NFA imposed a tax on the manufacturing, selling, and transporting of firearms listed in the law, among them short-barrel shotguns and rifles, machine guns, firearm mufflers and silencers. Due to constitutional flaws, the NFA was modified several times. The $200 tax, which was high for the era, was put in place to curtail the transfer of these weapons.

1938​

The Federal Firearms Act (FFA) of 1938 required gun manufacturers, importers, and dealers to obtain a federal firearms license. It also defined a group of people, including convicted felons, who could not purchase guns, and mandated that gun sellers keep customer records. The FFA was repealed in 1968 by the Gun Control Act (GCA), though many of its provisions were reenacted by the GCA.

1939​

In 1939 the U.S. Supreme Court heard the case United States v. Miller, ruling that through the National Firearms Act of 1934, Congress could regulate the interstate selling of a short barrel shotgun. The court stated that there was no evidence that a sawed off shotgun “has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia,” and thus “we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument.”

1968​

Following the assassinations of President John F. Kennedy, Attorney General and U.S. Senator Robert F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., President Lyndon B. Johnson pushed for the passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968. The GCA repealed and replaced the FFA, updated Title II of the NFA to fix constitutional issues, added language about “destructive devices” (such as bombs, mines and grenades) and expanded the definition of “machine gun.”




Overall the bill banned importing guns that have “no sporting purpose,” imposed age restrictions for the purchase of handguns (gun owners had to be 21), prohibited felons, the mentally ill, and others from purchasing guns, required that all manufactured or imported guns have a serial number, and according to the ATF, imposed “stricter licensing and regulation on the firearms industry.”

1986​

In 1986 the Firearm Owners Protection Act was passed by Congress. The law mainly enacted protections for gun owners — prohibiting a national registry of dealer records, limiting ATF inspections to once per year (unless there are multiple infractions), softening what is defined as “engaging in the business” of selling firearms, and allowing licensed dealers to sell firearms at “gun shows” in their state. It also loosened regulations on the sale and transfer of ammunition.


The bill also codified some gun control measures, including expanding the GCA to prohibit civilian ownership or transfer of machine guns made after May 19, 1986, and redefining “silencer” to include parts intended to make silencers.

1993​

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 is named after White House press secretary James Brady, who was permanently disabled from an injury suffered during an attempt to assassinate President Ronald Reagan. (Brady died in 2014). It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton. The law, which amends the GCA, requires that background checks be completed before a gun is purchased from a licensed dealer, manufacturer or importer. It established the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which is maintained by the FBI.

1994​

Tucked into the sweeping and controversial Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, signed by President Clinton in 1994, is the subsection titled Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act. This is known as the assault weapons ban — a temporary prohibition in effect from September of 1994 to September of 2004. Multiple attempts to renew the ban have failed.


The provisions of the bill outlawed the ability to “manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon,” unless it was “lawfully possessed under Federal law on the date of the enactment of this subsection.” Nineteen military-style or “copy-cat” assault weapons—including AR-15s, TEC-9s, MAC-10s, etc.—could not be manufactured or sold. It also banned “certain high-capacity ammunition magazines of more than ten rounds,” according to a U.S. Department of Justice Fact Sheet.

2003​

The Tiahrt Amendment, proposed by Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.), prohibited the ATF from publicly releasing data showing where criminals purchased their firearms and stipulated that only law enforcement officers or prosecutors could access such information.


“The law effectively shields retailers from lawsuits, academic study and public scrutiny,” The Washington Post wrote in 2010. “It also keeps the spotlight off the relationship between rogue gun dealers and the black market in firearms.”


There have been efforts to repeal this amendment.

2005​

In 2005, the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act was signed by President George W. Bush to prevent gun manufacturers from being named in federal or state civil suits by those who were victims of crimes involving guns made by that company.


The first provision of this law is “to prohibit causes of action against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and importers of firearms or ammunition products, and their trade associations, for the harm solely caused by the criminal or unlawful misuse of firearm products or ammunition products by others when the product functioned as designed and intended.” It also dismissed pending cases on October 26, 2005.

2008​

District of Columbia v. Heller essentially changed a nearly 70-year precedent set by Miller in 1939. While the Miller ruling focused on the “well regulated militia” portion of the Second Amendment (known as the “collective rights theory” and referring to a state’s right to defend itself), Heller focused on the “individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia.”


Heller challenged the constitutionality of a 32-year-old handgun ban in Washington, D.C., and found, “The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment.”


It did not however nullify other gun control provisions. “The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms,” stated the ruling.






This is "WHY"
Cause EVERY TIME we "compromise" we lose more.
And it's NEVER ENOUGH.
NEVER.


Time to STOP GIVING IN.

Did you miss 1775?

 

[NoGoJoe]

Allegedly.

Allegedly to the shooting, or Allegedly to the use of a bump-stock?

 

[jsx1043]

Allegedly to the shooting, or Allegedly to the use of a bump-stock?

Well...both?

 

[actaeon277]

Did you miss 1775?

I'm lazy.
Pretty sure there's hundreds I missed.

 

[NoGoJoe]

Could be it brings joy to the person who wants it. It is that simple.

That's a fair and practical reason.

 

[jsx1043]

That's a fair and practical reason.

Still not sure why there needs to be a fair and practical reason...

Shall not be infringed is pretty darned clear.

 

[NoGoJoe]

Does everything have to be practical? Can't anything be "just for fun"? I never had a desire to have one, because I just viewed them as a way to create a lot of empty brass in a hurry, but I'm not going to try and stop someone else from having one just because I don't see a need for it. That's liberal logic. "I don't like it, therefore, you should not have it."

Yes, some things can just be for fun. MAN, a lot of people read WAY TOO much into this question. I'm anti-bumpstock, I'm not pro-bumpstock, I'm just trying to understand practically because that's how my mind works.
I'm also not saying because something is impractical, someone shouldn't own it.

 

[NoGoJoe]

Still not sure why there needs to be a fair and practical reason...

Shall not be infringed is pretty darned clear.

Who said it has to "fair or practical?" I'm not trying to pass legislation here, just trying to get feedback and thoughts.

 

[maxwelhse]

MAN, a lot of people read WAY TOO much into this question.

Alright...

I suggest you refrain from using the exact language that people have been using to ban guns when you phrase your question next time unless you're looking to sound like the people that want to ban them. We've been defending against "practical", "sporting", "hunting", etc for decades. It's not a good way to start a conversation in pro-2A circles. Our default answer to that language is always going to be "because we can and it's our God given right".

Let's call this a mulligan and move on.

 

[PistolBob]

Can't open link.

The link is now being blocked for some reason.

 

[NoGoJoe]

Alright...

I suggest you refrain from using the exact language that people have been using to ban guns when you phrase your question next time unless you're looking to sound like the people that want to ban them. We've been defending against "practical", "sporting", "hunting", etc for decades. It's not a good way to start a conversation in pro-2A circles. Our default answer to that language is always going to be "because we can and it's our God given right".

Let's call this a mulligan and move on.

Good deal.

 

[Mikey1911]

Hey. You like storing up an entire day of farts to use them all at once... who am I to judge?

Is that “Classical Gas”?

 

[actaeon277]

Hey. I love that song

 

[KellyinAvon]

Yes, some things can just be for fun. MAN, a lot of people read WAY TOO much into this question. I'm anti-bumpstock, I'm not pro-bumpstock, I'm just trying to understand practically because that's how my mind works.
I'm also not saying because something is impractical, someone shouldn't own it.

I have no use for bump stocks. I do see there prohibition as a slope. Slope, slippery.

I have no use for drum magazines unless it’s for a Tommy Gun. I like reliability. I do see prohibition of these as a slope, slippery.

I don’t own a pistol length AR, I own nothing with a brace. I’m all in on keeping these legal, because the next guns they come after will be my guns.

After that it will be more guns that I own. After that? Well I don’t own any semi automatic shotguns. But after that? Will it be my Remington Rand 1911, or my Ruger 10/22?

Sign on for the long haul, this **** never ends.