Gunsmithing Schools

[VulpesForge]

Afternoon everyone,
Let me start by saying I've got machine and mechanical experience, I was a mechanic for a time, am a welder now, and have all the associated tooling. I have done many, many tune up jobs for myself and friends when they ask and everyone loved the work. Ive built plenty of ar's and custom glock yada yada. Ive had more than my fair share of revolvers of (insert make).
What I'd like to ask the community is this, are any of the gunsmithing correspondence schools worth anything and if so, which? If I need a traditional school to gain real/more balanced experience, is there a real preference among companies?
If I were intending to open a shop myself and do light repairs, is anything after a FFL other than machining and an understanding of mechanical and firearms parts actually necessary? I've never had any real issues putting something together I've taken apart, and with a blueprint I can build most anything. I'm also comfortable in my level of skill for any standard part replacement on about anything. I also do a bit of blacksmith work and can and have heat treated leaf springs for older pieces.

Thank you in advance and please let me know if any clarification is necessary.

Quick edit, I am aware of the sticky, but it was posted the better part of a decade ago and I'm searching for more recent information in the schooling department and perhaps if anyone here has first or secondhand experience or anecdotes that would be appreciated.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I have been researching this as well.
It sounds like SDI is good if you can commit the time to it.
AGI is expensive and not super organized.
MGS is really economical, I'm just not sure how in depth they go. They are fully accredited though.
Seems a lot use MGS and then supplement with specific courses from AGI.
I really wish there was someone local that I could do an apprenticeship style learning from, but I am not aware of anyone.

 

[Squirt239]

I have been researching this as well.
It sounds like SDI is good if you can commit the time to it.
AGI is expensive and not super organized.
MGS is really economical, I'm just not sure how in depth they go. They are fully accredited though.
Seems a lot use MGS and then supplement with specific courses from AGI.
I really wish there was someone local that I could do an apprenticeship style learning from, but I am not aware of anyone.

I have taken on two apprentices in my shop.

One was really really good. One was really really bad. The good one started up his own shop. He does fantastic work, and I am proud of that.

Downside, I train people to leave. It costs me time and eventually money. However, I continue to revamp services, become more innovative, and allow my work to speak for itself.

Still, it is difficult for me to train my competitor. Not to mention the liability of having the new guy working on someone else's controlled explosion.

In other words, if you do find a shop to take on an apprenticeship, remember, they could be losing as much as you are gaining!

 

[Jaybird1980]

I have taken on two apprentices in my shop.

One was really really good. One was really really bad. The good one started up his own shop. He does fantastic work, and I am proud of that.

Downside, I train people to leave. It costs me time and eventually money. However, I continue to revamp services, become more innovative, and allow my work to speak for itself.

Still, it is difficult for me to train my competitor. Not to mention the liability of having the new guy working on someone else's controlled explosion.

In other words, if you do find a shop to take on an apprenticeship, remember, they could be losing as much as you are gaining!

I can fully understand what you're saying.
Having been in the millwright trade for so long I can say I really enjoyed learning the different ways to go about things from the guys that came before me. When the next group came behind me I enjoyed helping the ones that were really interested in learning the craft vs just earning a paycheck.

The reality is I'm unaware of anyone close to me at all, and I think it would be nice to have in the area. Would love to hear about how you got your start someday.

 

[VulpesForge]

Thanks for the responses, gentlemen. I found a local smith to take me under his wing and I've actually completed a couple jobs already. I can tell I'm already addicted to fixing. I'll try to keep the apprentice advice in mind and stay humble. As far as my particular learning style goes, specific AGI videos and the hands on instruction is working wonders. I've never excelled in a classroom environment unless I was determined to do so and have always learned more efficiently by watching and then doing, rinse and repeat. I can handily recommend an apprenticeship if that sounds like your learning style. I'll try to keep a log and maybe a more detailed description as I progress if time permits in hopes of providing information about the path I chose for others to follow or beware. I can't promise anything quickly, but it will be on the list.

 

[Amishman44]

Something else to consider....
Acquiring your Glock Armorer's Course(s) => Certificate Training
Any other manufacturer provided courses are a plus as well!

 

[Chewie]

Something else to consider....
Acquiring your Glock Armorer's Course(s) => Certificate Training
Any other manufacturer provided courses are a plus as well!

Wait, WHAT? A glock armorer's course? I read somewhere on INGO (a year ago?) that glock's were perfect, period! Never failed, no improvements needed, and didn't wear out!

Sorry, just had to say it. As Flip Wilson used to say "The debil made me do it. I said, get away from me debil, right now!".

 

[Amishman44]

Wait, WHAT? A glock armorer's course? I read somewhere on INGO (a year ago?) that glock's were perfect, period! Never failed, no improvements needed, and didn't wear out!
Sorry, just had to say it. As Flip Wilson used to say "The debil made me do it. I said, get away from me debil, right now!".

Ha ha ha ha...Glocks already are 'perfect'...they just want to you to pay your hard-earned $$ so they can teach you, over an 8-hour day, what you can learn in a 3.5 minute YouTube video so you can have a Certificate to put on your wall!
I'm still curious as to what an 'Advanced Glock Armorer's Course' will teach you beyond the Basic Course...or what the advantage of having obtained it would be???
I can already completely strip and re-assemble (new parts, or whatever) a Glock pistol in less than 10 minutes...new springs installed too!

 

[SPOOK331945]

I've looked at SDI myself but they haven't gotten very good reviews when you look through it. For the price you pay for an online school, I don't think it's anything else that you can't learn from youtube these days. Trade work isn't really something I would be looking for online schooling. The trade is too hands-on to be online IMHO. Ya, you'll get a paper and some knowledge but hand skills would be lacking. Unfortunately, there aren't many if any local places that would provide the opportunity. Better off finding a machine shop or tool and die apprenticeship to work in. The same skill set could be applied. That would give the true hands-on experience needed. SDI is more tailored to the new cerakote smiths. Disassemble, paint, reassemble, not really any "smithing."

 

[JeepHammer]

Afternoon everyone,
Let me start by saying I've got machine and mechanical experience, I was a mechanic for a time, am a welder now, and have all the associated tooling. I have done many, many tune up jobs for myself and friends when they ask and everyone loved the work. Ive built plenty of ar's and custom glock yada yada. Ive had more than my fair share of revolvers of (insert make).
What I'd like to ask the community is this, are any of the gunsmithing correspondence schools worth anything and if so, which? If I need a traditional school to gain real/more balanced experience, is there a real preference among companies?
If I were intending to open a shop myself and do light repairs, is anything after a FFL other than machining and an understanding of mechanical and firearms parts actually necessary? I've never had any real issues putting something together I've taken apart, and with a blueprint I can build most anything. I'm also comfortable in my level of skill for any standard part replacement on about anything. I also do a bit of blacksmith work and can and have heat treated leaf springs for older pieces.

Thank you in advance and please let me know if any clarification is necessary.

Quick edit, I am aware of the sticky, but it was posted the better part of a decade ago and I'm searching for more recent information in the schooling department and perhaps if anyone here has first or secondhand experience or anecdotes that would be appreciated.

As to your own shop, start it as an LLC and have a crap ton of personal liability insurance.
Protect yourself & your assets.

Since you are a machinist, you already have a pretty good understanding of direction of force as it applies to cutting metal.
Sit down and figure out where the forces are coming from, and how that force applies to the component parts.

I learned *some* gunsmithing from a retired gunsmith, joined the Marines and wound up in Precision Weapons where a serious, formal education began.

I get cracked on when I write about getting upper receivers square faced so the barrel & bolt lugs all make contact, but you will quickly learn most of what a gunsmith does is correct mistakes manufacturers or owners make.

Doesn't matter if it's bolt or semi, square up the reciever face, straighten the threads, get everything aligned so the bolt locking lugs take the force evenly,
Then lap the locking lugs so they make maximum contact spreading out the force.

This keeps bolts from deflecting, keeping the chamber square & true (repeatability),
And it keeps from overstressing locking lugs.

I like Schutzen rifles.
The German silver, wonderful woodwork, they really are the best the 19th/20th century gunsmiths could produce.
They do come with their own set of challenges, being 100% custom made 'One Of' you have to make any replacement parts from scratch.

The opposite is an AR, being modular all you really have to do is square mass produced recievers and correct what ever went wrong with mass forging of the parts.
A little tweaking & tuning, some gauges to make sure everything is fitting correctly and you are off to the races.

I toured Remington rifle plant a bunch of years back,
Watched a CNC hack saw cut reciever tubing to length (but not square),
Off to batch end grinding for length (but not square),
Then on to machining the bolt slots/etc, not once squaring the barrel mating surface,
Then watched a full tap forced into the reciever tube NOT cutting barrel threads square with the tubing bore...

That's why I lathe jig the reciever, cut the mating face square,
Then chuck the reciever tube and straighten threads.
At least barrel threads were lathe cut, so usually chuck the barrel and finish the job.

Then it's lapping bolt lugs/bolt face square.
Once lugs engage flat & true, lap the bolt face square with the bore.
Good, smooth, square lock up that way.

Most are close enough lapping works, but some you will actually have to chuck up and cut, just the flaws of mass production so people can buy them for $299 at the farm & discount stores...
(The biggest pain in the butt for gunsmiths is 'Cheap' mass production)

Wait until you get a good bore scope and see what passes for 'Rifling'!!!
I tell people I don't have an 'Opinion', I have a bore scope...

I show them the straight cuts or saw tooth rifling cuts where the rifling button was twisting the pull through rod before it decided to cut a proper spiral twist.

The manufacturer never took off the stress/twist alignment end of the barrel blank before the rifling button reached equalization pressure...

I'm sure it saved $2 in barrel material, but it totally screwed up bullet alignment in the bore.

I show them the gouges where copper or lead is building up, under pressures that make metals into hydraulic pressures, widening gouges & pits in the barrel...

Showing craters/voids is the best way to get them to understand why lapping & barrel break in is necessary.

Then you get customers come in that are just morons...
The guy saying his Ruger .223 bolt rifle is blowing gunpowder back into his face.
I looked the rifle over, gauged the chamber & bore, inspect everything, can't find anything wrong.

So we try to test fire it...
He whips out a box of .222 ammo for his .223 !!!!!!
No wonder it had blow-by!

Or the guy with a 4" split in the chamber of a muzzle loader that wanted me to "Just Fix It, Wrap Some Wire Around It Or Something".
NOPE! Just NOPE!

I hope it goes well for you!
Best wishes on doing something you like to do.

 

[Gunsmiff12B]

I went to the Colorado school of trades near Denver Colorado it was 14 months and if you were prior service your GI bill covers it almost 100%. You learn basics, machining, welding, stocks, bluing, design and function. It was a great school and would highly recommend

Also you build a rifle through out the whole time you are in school and keep it at the end

Program - Colorado School of Trades

Looking to pursue a career in Gunsmithing? Read more about our program here and find out how to enroll today!

schooloftrades.edu