Gingrich: Gov. Should Allow Some Terror Attacks To Remind Us

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  • dross

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    I get it. When Paul is taken out of context, it's his fault for not properly packaging his message and therefore is unelectable.

    We know that all conservative candidates will be taken out of context. Also, sometimes candidates on the left will be taken out of context. One of the attributes of libertarians USED TO BE able to recognize and acknowledge that kind of unfair silliness regardless of who it was being used against. I've defended Obama and other lefties on this site when I thought their comments were being purposefully misunderstood.

    It wasn't until Ron Paul came along that I've seen "libertarians" embrace socialist tactics.

    When an elephant is taken out of context it's because the masses are too stupid to grasp their superior intellect.

    That, and those who do understand but willfully perpetuate the misunderstanding to purposefully advance their cause through less than ethical means.

    Ron Paul speaks about 911 and believes America is just as guilty as the hijackers. Gospel truth.

    I don't even know what this is referring to. What did he say?

    Ron Paul speaks about Israeli welfare and he's an antisemite who oversaw the ovens at Auschwitz.

    Did some conservatives do this? Not arguing, asking. I made some jokes to illustrate what I saw as a double standard held by Paul supporters in opposition to Cain. Are there some conservatives who actually think Paul is an anti-semite? I don't think he is. But then, I like Ron Paul and plan to vote for him in the primary and I certainly would enthusiastically support him in the general. I'm quite aware, though, that among the faithful my level of support, because I have reservations about his electability, is pretty close to being a Paul hater.

    Newt calls for more attacks so he's just mocking liberal policies.

    No, he really meant it. He did. For reals.

    Go elephants!

    When the two main parties have such bad animals for mascots, if the libertarians would just get a cool animal for a mascot they'd pick up a few million votes in the national election.

    Unfortunately, many libertarians seem to support the unicorn as their mascot, though with some of the tactics the Paul supporters use, perhaps the snake would make more sense.
     

    BJMANIS

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    I don't know or care who the GOP candidate will be but if is Ron Paul, I don't think I will make a presidential vote. I really don't think I have to worry about Ron Paul being the GOP candidate.
     

    rambone

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    Do you agree with our current model of Homeland Security, designed by Newt? Do you support him wanting another Federal agency with "extraordinary abilities"?
    Dross, do you think this is an unfair/ socialist question? It is Newt calling for more Federal agencies and new powers that concerns me. Do you defend Newt on those points?
     

    dross

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    Dross, do you think this is an unfair/ socialist question? It is Newt calling for more Federal agencies and new powers that concerns me. Do you defend Newt on those points?

    It's a fair question and no, I don't defend him on those points. I evaluate Newt, like all politicians on a lesser of evils basis. I've written extensively on that, and I think all regular readers know my position on that, so I won't take this thread in that direction.

    What disturbs me about you in particular lately (and I feel like we've exchanged enough private msgs that I can get a little more personal with you than I do with most people) is that you seem to have adopted a "by any means necessary" approach to politics.

    Your credibility would be enhanced if you pointed out the ridiculousness of the accusation that Gingrich was advocating allowing terrorist attacks and then attacked his policies.

    Same thing with Cain. If you'd acknowledge that the attacks were unfair, and if orchestrated, then it's not only unfair, but a damned shame, and THEN gone on to point out his policy flaws, your credibility would soar.
     

    Expat

    Pdub
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    I don't know or care who the GOP candidate will be but if is Ron Paul, I don't think I will make a presidential vote. I really don't think I have to worry about Ron Paul being the GOP candidate.

    I hope you change your mind. Even if it is Ron Paul, I will be right there voting for him. I fear for the Republic if Obama gets another 4 years. It is going to be hard enough to repair it, no matter who we get otherwise. Our future is uncertain at best. But with Obama, I think our future is a foregone conclusion.
     

    dross

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    I hope you change your mind. Even if it is Ron Paul, I will be right there voting for him. I fear for the Republic if Obama gets another 4 years. It is going to be hard enough to repair it, no matter who we get otherwise. Our future is uncertain at best. But with Obama, I think our future is a foregone conclusion.

    Clearly you're an elephant-sniffer (love that phrase.) If you don't realize that Obama and Gingrich are EXACTLY THE SAME or perhaps Newt is even a little worse, then clearly you've been chugging the pachyderm-aid.

    Let's put it in this perspective.

    In 01 Bush and Congress at that time decided to go to war. Also, Bush spent some money on stupid social programs. Let's think of this as hiring a guy.

    So under Bush we hired a guy and we paid him about 18000 a year in 02. In 03 we gave him a big raise to about 38K. In 04 we gave him a raise and brought him to about 41K. Then they reduced his salary every year until in 07 he was making about 20K or so. Then the economy crashed and his salary jumped up again to about 42K.

    So, when Bush left office, the guy we hired, Mr. D, we'll call him, was making about 42K per year.

    Then in 09, Obama's first year, the guy got a raise. To 185K per year.

    But, see, Bush spent money too. So they're exactly the same. There's no difference between them.
     

    Phil502

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    Exactly......thats why I want Obama out, it can't get worse than him now, I don't think. They all have some politics to play and wasting money is one of them but how much money is the question.

    What Obama did in 3 years took Newt over 20, Obama is clearly the hare in this race.
     

    rambone

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    But, see, Bush spent money too. So they're exactly the same. There's no difference between them.
    There's more to this equation than just dollars. Can you really put a pricetag on your civil liberties being destroyed? Can you put a cost on how these expansive new federal programs will change the country? Personally I think destroying civil liberties and expanding the Police State is a worse offense than spending too much money.
     

    dross

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    There's more to this equation than just dollars. Can you really put a pricetag on your civil liberties being destroyed? Can you put a cost on how these expansive new federal programs will change the country? Personally I think destroying civil liberties and expanding the Police State is a worse offense than spending too much money.

    I consider taxes and economic freedom issues to be civil rights issues. Spending my daughter's money without her say so is trampling their civil rights more than the Patriot Act has done. You scour the Patriot Act to find the powers the government may use and ignore the sledge hammer they're pounding us with every day.

    A tax on tea and a tax on printed materials were two rallying issues that caused the founding of our country.

    The first "patriot act" was the Alien and Sedition acts which came from John Adams' presidency. Presidency number 2.

    Don't forget that our founding document legitimized slavery. The differences have always been the lesser of two evils. And hey, I respectfully disagree with another reasonable person if you say the Patriot Act is worse than unprecedented government growth. You're also assuming that had Obama been President during 911 that we wouldn't have had a Patriot Act. I think we'd have had little war response and a much more far-reaching Patriot Act, but to each his own.

    I hope we get a choice that isn't the lesser of evils. It happens occasionally. If we don't, though, I'll be deciding which one of these whores will hurt me and my family the least.
     

    KG1

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    I hope we get a choice that isn't the lesser of evils. It happens occasionally. If we don't, though, I'll be deciding which one of these whores will hurt me and my family the least.
    I agree with this approach. That's not to say that pretty much all of us don't have the same concerns about the things being brought up about civil liberties that have the potential of being violated concerning stuff like the patriot act but some of us chose to put our focus on other issues were dealing with in the here and now too and not something that may or may not happen in the future.

    Some of us have different priorities at the moment and one of mine is with the country being dragged further towards a more European socialist type model catering to the entitlement lifestyle of more dependency on the government. That has been and always will be a dangerous situation for this country to be in and i'm against whatever political entity is pulling hardest in that direction.
     

    rambone

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    I consider taxes and economic freedom issues to be civil rights issues.
    I agree. One issue among many.

    Spending my daughter's money without her say so is trampling their civil rights more than the Patriot Act has done.
    Debatable. We'll see what the future holds.

    You scour the Patriot Act to find the powers the government may use and ignore the sledge hammer they're pounding us with every day.
    I'm trying to look at the total picture of lost liberties. My point was that it is way too simplistic to reduce Bush & Obama down to dollars & cents.

    A tax on tea and a tax on printed materials were two rallying issues that caused the founding of our country.
    The tip of the iceberg. There was so much more than that. Everything in the Bill of Rights was inspired by the mistreatment of the colonists. The Declaration of Independence lists the usurpations of the Crown, and covers a lot more than just high taxes.

    The first "patriot act" was the Alien and Sedition acts which came from John Adams' presidency. Presidency number 2.
    An even earlier such law came from King George. The Patriot Act is essentially the modern-day Writs of Assistance Act. Recall that this was the act that allowed the British king’s soldiers to write their own search warrants, and bang down any door they chose, to look for the stamps, smuggled goods, or any other Colonial mischief. It could be argued that this was the last straw for many of the colonists, which led to calls for independence.

    Revolutionary pot-stirrer James Otis, Jr., who coined the phrase "Taxation without representation is tyranny", famously railed against King George's Patriot Act for 5 hours in front of the Massachusetts statehouse.
    "I will to my dying day oppose, with all the powers and faculties God has given me, all such instruments of slavery on the one hand and villainy on the other as this Writ of Assistance is. It appears to me the worst instrument of arbitrary power, the most destructive of English liberty and the fundamental principles of law, that ever was found in an English law-book." -- James Otis (source)
    And hey, I respectfully disagree with another reasonable person if you say the Patriot Act is worse than unprecedented government growth.
    This is not limited to the Patriot Act. Bush was a busy boy. He created the Department of Homeland Security, the TSA, Medicare Part D, No Child Left Behind, multi-Trillion dollar wars, on and on.

    We've got lots of new gun-carrying Federal agents now thanks to Bush. He did a lot to militarize local police too. He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance. These are major issues that cannot be measured on a balance sheet.

    You're also assuming that had Obama been President during 911 that we wouldn't have had a Patriot Act. I think we'd have had little war response and a much more far-reaching Patriot Act, but to each his own.
    I have reason to assume that Obama would have acted the same as Bush if he were president in 2001. Its not like Bush came up with all that stuff himself. He surrounded himself with globalists from the CFR and did what he was told.
     

    hornadylnl

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    We know that all conservative candidates will be taken out of context. Also, sometimes candidates on the left will be taken out of context. One of the attributes of libertarians USED TO BE able to recognize and acknowledge that kind of unfair silliness regardless of who it was being used against. I've defended Obama and other lefties on this site when I thought their comments were being purposefully misunderstood.

    It wasn't until Ron Paul came along that I've seen "libertarians" embrace socialist tactics.



    That, and those who do understand but willfully perpetuate the misunderstanding to purposefully advance their cause through less than ethical means.



    I don't even know what this is referring to. What did he say?

    Here you go.
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...les_ron_pauls_hate_america_first_message.html


    Did some conservatives do this? Not arguing, asking. I made some jokes to illustrate what I saw as a double standard held by Paul supporters in opposition to Cain. Are there some conservatives who actually think Paul is an anti-semite? I don't think he is. But then, I like Ron Paul and plan to vote for him in the primary and I certainly would enthusiastically support him in the general. I'm quite aware, though, that among the faithful my level of support, because I have reservations about his electability, is pretty close to being a Paul hater.

    Read posts 21,33,41,42,54,104,115 for starters.
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...verts_democrats_on_war_and_civil_liberty.html



    No, he really meant it. He did. For reals.



    When the two main parties have such bad animals for mascots, if the libertarians would just get a cool animal for a mascot they'd pick up a few million votes in the national election.

    Unfortunately, many libertarians seem to support the unicorn as their mascot, though with some of the tactics the Paul supporters use, perhaps the snake would make more sense.

    Pot, meet kettle. I know you're better than this
    Wow, how's Gingrich going to get out of this one? There he is on video, advocating that we allow terrorist attacks.

    Now some of the mindless Republicans are going to claim that he was just following out the logic of the administration's critics to the absurd in order to make a point, but they're just mindless idiots.

    Clearly, obviously, indisputably he was actually advocating that the government let terrorist attacks get through in order to justify security measures.

    He can't fool us, though. We're way too smart and fair minded to fall for that.
     
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    Isn't that what we did the first time? We had intelligence indicating that the 9/11 attacks would be committed, and we didn't act... We ignored our own intelligence information....

    It was never an intelligence gathering issue in the first place.... Pointing to civil liberties as the cause for terrorism is a joke.
     
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