First winter with a little one

[10-32]

Thanks for all the info guys. I went to check out kerosene heaters and found one that should heat the house with 12 hours between refills. However, the fuel was completely gone. They had some K-1 alternative "fuel" on the shelf and some different scents (vanilla, really?) to add to kerosene as well. Is $10.xx for a gallon what I should expect to pay around here for K1?

I also looked at the buddy heaters and they seem really nice considering you can use the small canisters or large tanks, and since I already have a gas grill I can get dual purpose from them.

I'm thinking I should just be true to the INGO way and get both.

My parents have a wood stove and I would love to go that direction but that is a lot of work for a house that I hope not to be in a couple of years from now. That is the same reason I am hesitant to do the work and wiring for a battery backup system as well. I have a lot of plans that I would like to implement but I just don't want to waste the effort when I plan to move out on some land soon(wishful thinking right?).

I wouldn't buy it off the self at that price. Buy a 5 gal Kero container and head to Speedway or BP. I paid $4.00 a gal last time a filled two containers a Speedway here in B-burg.

 

[DanO]

Both times I have lived here in NWI, I have had ventless Gas heaters installed in my garage. When the power was out in that ice storm in "97 it heated the house to warm enough and the den right inside the garage was very comfortable. Not very expensive, mounts to the wall, piezo ignition, so no electric needed.

 

[MuayThaiGuy]

I was leaning towards the kerosene heater until I saw the fuel burn rates on the heaters. The large heaters(that would have kept my small house warm) I found around here were burning 3.8 gallons a day. Since I didn't want to store that much kerosene I ended up going with the buddy heater to heat our bedroom. Picking up an extra grill tank will give me 4 days of heat.

Thanks for all your help and ideas.

 

[.356luger]

I was leaning towards the kerosene heater until I saw the fuel burn rates on the heaters. The large heaters(that would have kept my small house warm) I found around here were burning 3.8 gallons a day. Since I didn't want to store that much kerosene I ended up going with the buddy heater to heat our bedroom. Picking up an extra grill tank will give me 4 days of heat.

Thanks for all your help and ideas.

you our can always pick up a "big" cylinder for lp at your local farm store 100# tanks ect

 

[10-32]

If you decide to go the exchange route with the tanks, watch where you go. Some places only fill their exchange tanks with 15 Lbs instead of the 18 lbs it's capable of. Most of the companies that do this state it on their storage cages. Mowery's here in B-burg charged $20 (tax included) last time I had my tanks filled there. I haven't really check anywhere in Avon for their refill prices. Kinda miss paying $13 a tank at Van Andel Propane back in Churubusco.

 

[Krogo]

Just a Copy/Paste from a previous thread regarding Heat without power....

"I'm sure I'm also late, however, +1 on the Kerosene.

I also have a 100% electric house. We have a Heatpump with no backup. We do not have room for a wood stove, and I refuse to install an outdoor boiler. Anytime the outside temperature drops below 20F we lose heat. We heat with Kerosene everyday in the winter and cook with it in the summer in our “Summer Kitchen.”
First and foremost, a salamander style heater should never, under any circumstances, be used in a living area!! Regardless of the fuel source. In what is written below, “Kerosene Heater” and “Propane Heater” will refer to Wicked Kerosene heaters and non vented portable Propane heaters.
There are several reasons for my decision to use Kerosene. Saftey, Storage, Use are key. Kerosene stores very well. If you treat it with a stabilizer like Pri-D it will store for an extremely long time (the PRI company says indefinitely with re-treatments however, I have my doubts.)

One complaint I hear is that Kerosene is expensive. Kerosene has an energy density of ~126,000 BTU per gallon. Current local cost (1/10/2013) for kerosene is $3.65 per gallon or $2.89 per 100,000 BTU. Propane has an average energy density (depending on actual composition in the bottle) of ~91,000 BTU per gallon. A 20 pound Cylinder of propane contains ~4.5 gallons although that is based on a full tank, tanks are only filled to 80%. At the time of writing, Propane refills around here are $17.61 for a 20# tank (the Blue Rhino exchanges are around $22). So Propane is $3.91 per gallon or $4.29 per 100,000 BTU. The cost of Kerosene would have to increase to $5.40 per gallon to match the cost of propane in 20# tanks. The Wholesale cost of propane currently for those who have large permanent tanks is $1.925 per gallon or $2.11 per 100,000 BTU however that price does not include delivery. In summary: Kerosene is $2.89 / 100K BTU. Propane is $4.29 / 100K BTU (in 20# tanks)

So the next issue is storage of enough fuel for an emergency. I have two 10,000 BTU Radiant Kerosene Heaters. I can heat my home, comfortably, in a power outage in the dead of winter with both running. That’s 20,000 BTU per Hour. Lets assume that the heaters are 98% efficient (which most non vented heaters are) that means for 20,000 BTU of heat produced I’m using ~20,400 BTU worth of fuel per hour. Five gallons of Kerosene will theoretically heat my home continuously for 30 Hours. For the same heat load in propane, on a 20# tank, I’d theoretically get 20 hours runtime. So If I wanted to prepare for a full week of no power in the dead of winter, I’d have to store ~28 gallons of Kerosene or 37.8 Gallons of Propane. Six 5 gallon Kerosene cans or Nine 20# Propane tanks.

Kerosene is Combustible, NOT Flammable, Kerosene will not take a flame. Kerosene can be stored near ignition sources (although not advised.) The flash point (the point at which the liquid begins to “Flash” to a vapor) is above 100F whereas propane has a flash point of -155F. All this means that a leak of Kerosene will remain Combustible and pose no immediate fire risks whereas a Propane leak is Flammable at the get go and compounded by the fact that Propane is heavier than air.

All combustion consumes Oxygen, produces Carbon Dioxide and has the potential to create Carbon Monoxide. The potential to create CO is related to the oxygen concentration both in the surrounding air and the oxygen concentration at the source of combustion. As the levels of Oxygen decrease the potential to produce CO increase. Kerosene Heaters are not air regulated, meaning combustion has freely available all the oxygen required. The amount of fuel directly corresponds to the output. As long as oxygen levels are maintained in the area the heater is used and the heater is operated correctly, CO production should never be of concern, though I strongly recommend a CO detector in the area. Propane heaters must mix air and fuel to stoichiometry before proper combustion can occur. This means that if the oxygen levels in the area are low enough CO will be produced just like in the case of a Kerosene heater. Propane heaters however also have a mix tube or a burner design that regulates the amount of oxygen that is present for combustion. You now have two potential sources for CO production. If the Mix tube is partially clogged, or in the case of the Mr. Heater heaters there is dust on the Ceramic combustor or the tiny air passages in the combustor are partially blocked CO will be produced. The key to any non vented combustion heater is proper air exchange.

Take note of the UL rating on portable heaters. If you use a heater that is not UL rated for home use or Living area use and you home burns down because of it, Insurance may not pay out. Spend some time looking at the ratings on portable propane heaters. The HOSE may be UL listed but the heater is NOT. This may not be the case with all propane heaters, however the Mr. Heater Buddy series I hear many folks talking about is NOT UL certified. Almost all Wicked Kerosene heaters carry the UL certification.

Just because something stinks doesn't mean it’s bad!! I’m not sure when the country became stricken with chemophobia, I don’t like it though. The only time odor should be present when running a Kerosene heater is at startup and when you extinguish the heater. If you are experiencing odor while the unit is running, there is a problem. Kerosene Heaters really only have one setting, all out. If you run a Kerosene Heater with a low flame or a high flame you may get odor. The ideal setting for a Kerosene heater is where there are about ¼” to ½” BLUE flames poking out the top of the Catalyst/chimney. A Blue flame is a safe Flame. If you have any Yellow flames poking out the top you have incomplete combustion and are producing Odor at minimum CO worst case. Running a Kerosene heater on Low is always a recipe for odor. Remember I just said Catalyst? That’s because that’s what it is. If you run a heater on low, depending on the design, the catalyst will not be hot enough the promote complete combustion resulting in the release of “Flash” (remember that?.) The odor is unburned heavy hydrocarbons, maybe some aldehydes, etc....

Sizing is Key!! I have spoken to many folks that went out and bought a 23,000 BTU convection Kerosene heater and complained constantly about odor. Turns out, what was happening is they were either running it at low flame or constantly lighting and extinguishing it because they bought a heater far too large for the space. I Have a 1500 square foot ranch. On the coldest day of the year I need 20K BTU worth of heat to keep my house at 70F. When it’s between 10F and 20F I need 10K BTU. I have Two 10K radiant heaters. I will start a heater when I get home from work, at it stays running until the house hits 76F, with the furnace fan running to distribute the heat, or it’s time to go to bed. I have had numerous people visit and never know I was running a Kerosene heater until they saw it. As has been said already, heat the person not the air. That is why I only recommend Radiant Kerosene Heaters. Not only does it have the ability to warm the air, it warms everything within line of sight with radiant energy. You also don’t have to have the thing in the middle of the room like a convection. Mine are all against a wall, just like a piece of furniture.

Ok,, That was a little long!! I just wanted to distribute some facts. In the end, I don’t dismiss Propane as a viable heating option, I just chose not to utilize it."

 

[Slawburger]

KOA campgrounds are a good place to refill your propane tanks.
I usually get a better deal there than at WalMart.

 

[6mm Shoot]

You said that you have a gas furnace. If that is the case you can change your fan in your furnace to a 12 volt fan. You can pick it up at any RV parts store then you can run your furnace off of a 12 volt boat battery. Now I made it sound very easy. There is a system that has to be put in place. Where the 110 comes in to the furnace it will have to be pulled and replaced with a 12 volt system. That means as well as the fan you will have to buy a voltage regulator from 110 to 12 volt with enough amps to run the fan. The people at the RV parts place can help you with what you will need. Then it all has to be hooked up. If you haven't worked with electric much I would suggest calling some one you know that knows what they are doing. It isn't a hard job but it has to be dun correctly. This would probably be the best way to go but it wold the most costly also. I would think you should be able to get it dun for around $600.