College Students' opinion of campus carry

[Spencir]

The online forum portion this week of my public safety class is on the topic of students carrying on campus. Here are some of the opinions from students in my class.

No, I do not believe that students should be allowed to carry firearms on campus to protect themselves for various reasons. The main reason I believe is that people will misuse the fact that they would be allowed to carry a gun and do it to show off or use it improperly. I think that students would show it off and even use it just to use it for no apparent reason, which is very unsafe and not a good idea. Students could also accidentally shoot the gun and have it go off or even worse, shoot themselves or someone else on accident. I think that by having students be able to carry guns would be an all around bad idea because of the very negative effects that would happen in result. I think that there could possibly be more investigating of how to make a student feel safer on campus if they didn't such as a police escort to and from your car, especially at night. The escorts could even just be golf carts like we have on campus waiting by the buildings if anyone is uncomfortable walking to their cars alone because I know that it's scary walking to your car alone at night, but having a gun to carry around would not be the solution to solving this.

I personally do not believe that students should be allowed to legally carry firearms on campus even in the event to protect themselves from a campus shooter. I do not think that you solve a problem with the problem you are trying to fix. If a person were on campus shooting then I would hope that law enforcement came as fast as possible to stop them. I believe that by allowing students to legally carry firearms on campus it may actually increase the likelihood of a campus shooting. I know that I would not feel safe if I saw one of my classmates carrying a firearm. Also, if it was legal then I could see a situation where a shooter who has his mind made up could better plan an attack because it would be okay for him or her to have a firearm on them. Also, studies have been done on law enforcement officers shooting abilities and even them who practice shooting all the time do not hit the target 100% of the time. If for example a student tried to shoot and kill the campus shooter and missed and killed another student that would create a whole new set of problems such as being held liable, being charged with a crime, as well as the enormous guilt that individual would feel. I think that the idea sounds nice on its face, but when you really analyze it and look at all sides of the argument I think that the bad outweigh the good and we have law enforcement for a reason and we should rely on them for help, rather than opening up the possibility for an entire campus.


It seems that so far, the students are uneducated about guns and think the police will arrive in time to protect them. I will post more as more students respond

 

[Rhoadmar]

It seems if the powers that be on a college campus wanted to allow student or faculty to carry they could require training and vetting by the campus police. This would be a reasonable compromise on their part instead of the outright ban that students and faculty endure now.
Lots of poor assumptions in the opinions already posted.

 

[Lucas156]

Using that same logic-I think free speech should not be allowed on campus either because that would increase the likelihood of hate speech and racism. Studies have shown that people even people who exercise free speech are never factually correct 100% of the time and often spread misinformation. The argument for free speech seems good on its face but its more important to prevent anti-government speech and hate speech than it is to be able to exercise a God-given right. Also, many people use free speech improperly and even abuse it. I think that by having students be able to exercise free speech would be an all around bad idea because of the very negative effects that would happen in result. For example, someones feelings could get hurt or there could be a lawsuit if discrimination comes into play.I know that it's scary to have someone else form your opinion for you, but being able to express your own opinion would not be the solution to solving this.

 

[Rhoadmar]

Using that same logic-I think free speech should not be allowed on campus either because that would increase the likelihood of hate speech and racism. Studies have shown that people even people who exercise free speech are never factually correct 100% of the time and often spread misinformation. The argument for free speech seems good on its face but its more important to prevent anti-government speech and hate speech than it is to be able to exercise a God-given right. Also, many people use free speech improperly and even abuse it. I think that by having students be able to exercise free speech would be an all around bad idea because of the very negative effects that would happen in result. For example, someones feelings could get hurt or there could be a lawsuit if discrimination comes into play.I know that it's scary to have someone else form your opinion for you, but being able to express your own opinion would not be the solution to solving this.

Nicely stated. Well crafted.

 

[DRob]

What strikes me the most about those "essays" is not the content (which is not good) but how poorly written they are. The inability of a college student to express him/her self in writing is disturbing.

 

[Manatee]

Yep DRob, we stopped teaching grammar in grade school and it is no surprise that a college student cannot write effective prose.

As to the responses, it appears the soccer moms are winning.

 

[Rhoadmar]

What strikes me the most about those "essays" is not the content (which is not good) but how poorly written they are. The inability of a college student to express him/her self in writing is disturbing.

I felt like I was reading something written in 7th grade.

 

[the1kidd03]

IME, I'd say about 90% of all persons who are not pro-gun/carry are so out of ignorance (lack of firearms knowledge.) Few just don't agree with it for other biased reasons/opinions and fewer still disagree with it on a moral premise.

 

[Bill of Rights]

The online forum portion this week of my public safety class is on the topic of students carrying on campus. Here are some of the opinions from students in my class.

...
"I personally do not believe that students should be allowed to legally carry firearms on campus even in the event to protect themselves from a campus shooter. I do not think that you solve a problem with the problem you are trying to fix. If a person were on campus shooting then I would hope that law enforcement came as fast as possible to stop them...."

Let's elaborate on this just a little, shall we?

You don't think you solve a problem with the problem you're trying to fix. OK, fair enough, I can see how you'd get there if we're talking about, say, spanking a child for hitting his sister. "You hit him, and that's bad, so I'm going to hit you." (I said I can see it, not that I agree with it.)

However, you then went on to say that you hope if there is a person on campus, shooting, that you "hope law enforcement came as fast as possible to stop them" (sic) With what do you suppose those officers will "stop them", pray tell? A harsh tone? Strong language? A firm "Naughty, naughty", as recommended by Dr. Benjamin Spock? Sarcasm aside, let's not delude ourselves with the erroneous thought that police are not going to be carrying and using the very same types of devices that good, peaceable citizens would be carrying, were it not for ludicrous policies that purport to create safety and instead create only target-rich environments for criminals bent on violence.

In addition, you correctly quoted that police shootings have been shown to hit an innocent person 11% of the time. What you failed to quote was that citizens who are armed for their own protection and that of those around them hit an innocent person only 2% of the time. (Source: Shall issue: the new wave of concealed handgun permit laws, Clayton Cramer, David Kopel, Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994, as quoted at the website: Gun Facts | Gun Control, Guns and Crime Prevention )

Consider also that in 95% of cases, police arrive too late to stop the crime or arrest the suspect for which they were summoned. ( Gun Facts | Police and Gun Control )

It has been said that self-defense is not a task well-delegated, and this is true. Police officers enter their profession with the noble goal of protecting and serving society as a whole, but they cannot and should not be everywhere. If you want protection from evildoers, there is only one person who will be with you at all times when you are in danger, and you look at him or her in the mirror in the morning. The only other person who will be guaranteed to be with you when you are in danger is the person presenting that danger. Which of the two is likely to have your best interests at heart?


Spencir, you are welcome to use (verbatim) my above response (in blue) in your class discussions, if you share the responses with me.


Blessings,
Bill

 

[Spencir]

Those are fantastic points and I will use them in the discussion. I don't think my comments will be appreciated as my professor said the first student's response was "correct" and "well done". It appears th

 

[jbombelli]

If someone walked into a classroom THOSE STUDENTS were in and started shooting, is 10 minutes a good enough response time? 5 minutes? A motivated person could kill the whole class LONG before any cops ever got there.

I've seen it said many times that when every second counts, the police are only a few minutes away.

 

[IUprof]

First, I was NOT the referenced professor Second, if I could carry I would feel much safer on campus.

 

[rbMPSH12]

I had my students write argumentative essays recently and one of the possible topics was campus carry. A good number of them chose it and all but one or two opposed it. Somehow they all used the same sources (some Forbes article, keepgunsoffcampus.org, and something else), which means they had the same bad arguments: 1) drinking/drugs and guns shouldn't be mixed, 2) there would be more suicides, 3) accidental discharges, 4) concealed carriers don't have as much training as LEOs. They're all common and easily refutable arguments. It's a shame they can't think beyond what the media pushes at them and look at the facts.

 

[nakinate]

Let's elaborate on this just a little, shall we?

You don't think you solve a problem with the problem you're trying to fix. OK, fair enough, I can see how you'd get there if we're talking about, say, spanking a child for hitting his sister. "You hit him, and that's bad, so I'm going to hit you." (I said I can see it, not that I agree with it.)

However, you then went on to say that you hope if there is a person on campus, shooting, that you "hope law enforcement came as fast as possible to stop them" (sic) With what do you suppose those officers will "stop them", pray tell? A harsh tone? Strong language? A firm "Naughty, naughty", as recommended by Dr. Benjamin Spock? Sarcasm aside, let's not delude ourselves with the erroneous thought that police are not going to be carrying and using the very same types of devices that good, peaceable citizens would be carrying, were it not for ludicrous policies that purport to create safety and instead create only target-rich environments for criminals bent on violence.

In addition, you correctly quoted that police shootings have been shown to hit an innocent person 11% of the time. What you failed to quote was that citizens who are armed for their own protection and that of those around them hit an innocent person only 2% of the time. (Source: Shall issue: the new wave of concealed handgun permit laws, Clayton Cramer, David Kopel, Independence Institute Issue Paper. October 17, 1994, as quoted at the website: Gun Facts | Gun Control, Guns and Crime Prevention )

Consider also that in 95% of cases, police arrive too late to stop the crime or arrest the suspect for which they were summoned. ( Gun Facts | Police and Gun Control )

It has been said that self-defense is not a task well-delegated, and this is true. Police officers enter their profession with the noble goal of protecting and serving society as a whole, but they cannot and should not be everywhere. If you want protection from evildoers, there is only one person who will be with you at all times when you are in danger, and you look at him or her in the mirror in the morning. The only other person who will be guaranteed to be with you when you are in danger is the person presenting that danger. Which of the two is likely to have your best interests at heart?


Spencir, you are welcome to use (verbatim) my above response (in blue) in your class discussions, if you share the responses with me.


Blessings,
Bill

Do it! I want to see the responses.

 

[Bfish]

Using that same logic-I think free speech should not be allowed on campus either because that would increase the likelihood of hate speech and racism. Studies have shown that people even people who exercise free speech are never factually correct 100% of the time and often spread misinformation. The argument for free speech seems good on its face but its more important to prevent anti-government speech and hate speech than it is to be able to exercise a God-given right. Also, many people use free speech improperly and even abuse it. I think that by having students be able to exercise free speech would be an all around bad idea because of the very negative effects that would happen in result. For example, someones feelings could get hurt or there could be a lawsuit if discrimination comes into play.I know that it's scary to have someone else form your opinion for you, but being able to express your own opinion would not be the solution to solving this.

This was awesome!

IME, I'd say about 90% of all persons who are not pro-gun/carry are so out of ignorance (lack of firearms knowledge.) Few just don't agree with it for other biased reasons/opinions and fewer still disagree with it on a moral premise.

And this is a very good point.

I just get so sad and frustrated with some opinions I encounter and with some ways of thinking regarding "guns"

 

[Dirtebiker]

The online forum portion this week of my public safety class is on the topic of students carrying on campus. Here are some of the opinions from students in my class.

No, I do not believe that students should be allowed to carry firearms on campus to protect themselves for various reasons. The main reason I believe is that people will misuse the fact that they would be allowed to carry a gun and do it to show off or use it improperly. I think that students would show it off and even use it just to use it for no apparent reason, which is very unsafe and not a good idea. Students could also accidentally shoot the gun and have it go off or even worse, shoot themselves or someone else on accident. I think that by having students be able to carry guns would be an all around bad idea because of the very negative effects that would happen in result. I think that there could possibly be more investigating of how to make a student feel safer on campus if they didn't such as a police escort to and from your car, especially at night. The escorts could even just be golf carts like we have on campus waiting by the buildings if anyone is uncomfortable walking to their cars alone because I know that it's scary walking to your car alone at night, but having a gun to carry around would not be the solution to solving this.

I personally do not believe that students should be allowed to legally carry firearms on campus even in the event to protect themselves from a campus shooter. I do not think that you solve a problem with the problem you are trying to fix. If a person were on campus shooting then I would hope that law enforcement came as fast as possible to stop them. I believe that by allowing students to legally carry firearms on campus it may actually increase the likelihood of a campus shooting. I know that I would not feel safe if I saw one of my classmates carrying a firearm. Also, if it was legal then I could see a situation where a shooter who has his mind made up could better plan an attack because it would be okay for him or her to have a firearm on them. Also, studies have been done on law enforcement officers shooting abilities and even them who practice shooting all the time do not hit the target 100% of the time. If for example a student tried to shoot and kill the campus shooter and missed and killed another student that would create a whole new set of problems such as being held liable, being charged with a crime, as well as the enormous guilt that individual would feel. I think that the idea sounds nice on its face, but when you really analyze it and look at all sides of the argument I think that the bad outweigh the good and we have law enforcement for a reason and we should rely on them for help, rather than opening up the possibility for an entire campus.


It seems that so far, the students are uneducated about guns and think the police will arrive in time to protect them. I will post more as more students respond

1: Do any of these kids realize that it IS NOT ILLEGAL for them to carry a firearm on campus?
2: Are ANY of these kids able to write a comprehensible paragraph?

"The escorts could even just be golf carts..."!?

 

[Dirtebiker]

First, I was NOT the referenced professor Second, if I could carry I would feel much safer on campus.

What is stopping you?
I know of one professor who carries on campus daily! I'm guessing there are more.

 

[scottka]

the most odd response in opposition to campus carry was that if a student was unhappy with the grade he/she was given, they would just shoot or threaten the professor...

Uhhh??? Really?! People are willing to go to prison or worse just to try to bump a letter grade?! Not saying it couldn't happen, but the campus carry laws certainly would 't prevent this. Most class grades are given online now anyways (at least IME) so its likely the student wouldn't even be on campus at the time the grade was given.

 

[Spencir]

Here's another response.

I agree with (first student) and (second student) that guns should not be allowed on campus. Even though I am legally licensed to carry a gun and have practiced gun safety and target shooting since I was old enough to hold a gun in my hand ( my Dad is a Vietnam Veteran and we always had guns in the house), one cannot predict how they would react in an emergency situation unless they are IN that situation. With all of the recent home invasions, I've thought about what I would be able to do... while I wouldn't hesitate to shoot someone who was threatening my life or that of my daughter, would I freeze up? Would I be shaking so hard that I couldn't hit them (even though I'm a pretty good shot)? No one knows for sure. That being said, too many people do not take guns seriously and the likelihood of an accidental shooting would drastically increase. Also, were the unthinkable to happen and a gunman were to open fire on campus, an untrained (but armed) student (or students) would only confuse the situation for the authorities and they could end up being targeted as the "bad guys".

 

[nakinate]

At the end of the day, it's not illegal to carry on campus. Cover it up, keep your mouth shut, JFC.