Carry Knife Recommendation

[mercop]

To those folks suggesting a waved folder. Two questions-
1) Do you have a waved trainer?
2) Have you tried deploying it during force on force?

If the answer to both is "no", please refrain from advising people to carry a waved folder for self-defense.

As far as stabbing or slashing. I have put people from all walks of life through the folder into the fight and other force on force scenario. That includes people who have had a lot of "knife fighting" training. They will tell you ahead of time that they will stab, but like the untrained, when they are attacked (beaten about the head with boxing gloves while being pushed back they all slash.

Slashing is natural because circular motion is natural, especially under stress. Stabbing is not natural, it is trained, and unless it is trained over and over in the same realistic situation it will be used under, it will fail.

It is because of this that 99% of the time when I teach someone to defend themselves with a knife I use Inverted Edge Tactics and a folder.

My best advise it to pick up a Spyderco Endura along wit a trainer, then get some training. Because you are a member here I am going to assume you carry a pistol at least part of the time. If that is the case, the knife is part of your personal system. That is very important to keep in mind because many "knife fighting" instructors are just about knives, and that makes just as much sense as the "don't bring a knife to a gunfight" bull**** you hear from some firearms instructors.

Instructors can only give you the blocks, not build the castle for you.- George

 

[glockednlocked]

George is giving very sage advise. His training experience as well as the hours spent watching students learn to deploy folders under stress makes me take notice.
I will say I am one of the largest advocates of the wave and I do carry a waved folder with illusions of being able to use it as a defensive tool. I see my skill set as very narrow and would not recommend others to do as I do, Just because some fat dude on the interwebs (ME says its cool. Consult an expert and get real training from someone like George.
I do not think anyone should count on being able to deploy any skill under stress that they have not practiced over and over under all the pressure a training environment can introduce. A trainer blade is essential to get the quantity of "reps" in. As allways training over tools! dont count on anything or anyone to respond in the pinch any better than your worst case in training.

 

[Dybber]

I carry a Benchmade with an auto blade very similar to a switch blad.......not sure if it's legal though.

I also prefer folders since they are easier to conceal and the pocket clips keep them from sliding around in my pocket making me look "happy" all the time.

Spyderco are awesome. I also have a good Gerber that has been good to me for years. All are the same basic design.

 

[Hexa-Tula]

If you are planning on carrying a fixed blade, I would look at the ESEE Izula and the Ka-Bar TDI knife. And like lovemachine mentioned, a Spyderco Manix 2 or Para-Military 2 would be a heck of a choice. They are are both great knives.

 

[mercop]

Not a fan of autos, if the spring goes you are screwed. Plus there are no trainers. Not a fan of the TDI either, I like my knives to look like all other knives....straight. No need to learn a new manual of arms for one knife.- George

 

[RyanV]

A small fixed blade knife makes for a better self defense weapon than a folder. That said, I carry a Lone Wolf T2 Ranger and I carry a gun for SD.

 

[PaulKersey]

Carry knife

I have had good luck with the Spyderco Delica 4 with the full flat grind. They are very light and hold an edge quite well. I would not even consider a fixed blade knife for defensive carry due to the difficulty involved in concealing it. You literally forget you are carrying the Spyderco, and they only cost about $60, depending on the source.

 

[Pale Rider]

To those folks suggesting a waved folder. Two questions-
1) Do you have a waved trainer?
2) Have you tried deploying it during force on force?

If the answer to both is "no", please refrain from advising people to carry a waved folder for self-defense.

As far as stabbing or slashing. I have put people from all walks of life through the folder into the fight and other force on force scenario. That includes people who have had a lot of "knife fighting" training. They will tell you ahead of time that they will stab, but like the untrained, when they are attacked (beaten about the head with boxing gloves while being pushed back they all slash.

Slashing is natural because circular motion is natural, especially under stress. Stabbing is not natural, it is trained, and unless it is trained over and over in the same realistic situation it will be used under, it will fail.

It is because of this that 99% of the time when I teach someone to defend themselves with a knife I use Inverted Edge Tactics and a folder.

My best advise it to pick up a Spyderco Endura along wit a trainer, then get some training. Because you are a member here I am going to assume you carry a pistol at least part of the time. If that is the case, the knife is part of your personal system. That is very important to keep in mind because many "knife fighting" instructors are just about knives, and that makes just as much sense as the "don't bring a knife to a gunfight" bull**** you hear from some firearms instructors.

Instructors can only give you the blocks, not build the castle for you.- George

George can you elaborate a little more on why slashing is more natural? I've found in the limited training scenarios I've been apart of I'm hesitant to slash for fear of opening myself up. Grab and stab from the elbow not the shoulder seems to feel more natural because it allows me to keep myself compact (elbows closer to body) and my core protected.

This just popped up on my radar and I think it would work for your inverted edge tactics and a more stabbing oriented defense. Any thoughts?

http://sharptactics.blogspot.com/2011/03/topsdespins-back-bite-purpose-built.html

 

[mercop]

A small fixed blade knife makes for a better self defense weapon than a folder. That said, I carry a Lone Wolf T2 Ranger and I carry a gun for SD.

What do you base this on? Have you used either or spoken to someone who has?- George

 

[mercop]

George can you elaborate a little more on why slashing is more natural? I've found in the limited training scenarios I've been apart of I'm hesitant to slash for fear of opening myself up. Grab and stab from the elbow not the shoulder seems to feel more natural because it allows me to keep myself compact (elbows closer to body) and my core protected.

This just popped up on my radar and I think it would work for your inverted edge tactics and a more stabbing oriented defense. Any thoughts?

Sharptactics; Sharp, Bright and Tactical WebMagazine: The Tops/Despins Back Bite, a Purpose-Built Fighting Knife on a Whole New Level

Any knife works for IET. That knife is basically a Death Dealer 2000, I would not want to be the defense attorney in a criminal or civil defense case where this knife was used. Basically the same thing as putting Punish er grips on your 1911.

The reason people slash instead of stab under stress is that is is more gross motor and used for more of the tings we do every day. When a bee flies in your face, do you try to punch it out of the air or swat it out of the air? Natural Protective Responses are very hard to overcome since they are a one size fits most type of thing, especially when you are not exactly sure of the threat you are dealing with.- George

 

[jbombelli]

My personal feeling regarding fixed vs. folders is this, but to each his own:

1) I want to do less rather than more, when it comes to getting a knife out and into action. Opening a folder is one more thing to do, one more thing to have in mind, one more thing to make sure you get right, one more thing to ingraine into muscle memory. And when you're full of instant adrenaline it's just that much harder - at least for me;

2) Every folding knife starts out with a weak spot in the middle, and a mechanism that might fail when you need it most. I'm a strong believer in Murphy's Law.

Ultimately, for me, the simpler, the better. Therefore a fixed blade is my preference.

Until recently all of my knives were intended to be tools first and weapons second. I decided I wanted something better suited to defense, though, and after much thought and looking around at different designs, I picked up a Benchmade 375. It's not too big, it's thin for easy concealability, and the spine is serrated, so I won't ever have to flip it over to an inverted grip. The serrations are sharp, too. Remind me, the next time I'm cord-wrapping a handle to tape the blade so I don't stupidly cut myself, lol.

Now I just need to find a trainer for it.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

I just love the Spyderco Endura full flat grind for anything of a "combat folder" length and the Benchmade Pardue for my light EDC. I can put the Pardue in the chest pocket of a button down shirt it's so light.

 

[Sylvain]

I would go with a fixed blade.I had a few folders close on me during training while stabbing and slashing.
Folders are meant to fold, that's what they do when you put lots of stress on the blade like you would during a fight.
You dont want to get a cut from your own knife during a fight.
Plus all the folding knives take longer to open and get a good grip on them, even fast folders with "wave" features.
You also usually have to change your grip 2 or 3 times from the time you grab it out of your pocket to the time you have a full "combat grip" and are ready to use it.
Until you get your final combat grip on the knife it's very easy to lose it, have someone kicking it out of your hand and such.
That's why I love the Kabar TDI, you can get a full combat grip right ahead, just like when drawing a gun.
You can just grab the knife, pull it out, and stab, no need to change grip.

Also some folders with thumb studs can be hard to open under stress or when your hands are wait.
Try to open your favorite folder when the knife is wet and your hands are wet, you might have a few surprises.

 

[David Rose]

The reason people slash instead of stab under stress is that is is more gross motor and used for more of the tings we do every day. When a bee flies in your face, do you try to punch it out of the air or swat it out of the air? Natural Protective Responses are very hard to overcome since they are a one size fits most type of thing, especially when you are not exactly sure of the threat you are dealing with.- George

I don't generally pull a knife on the bee either so I'm not seeing the relevance. The actions you are describing are true "reactions" as in internal to the system. At some point we switch over to trained "responses". Other wise this would be Indiana club owners.

The question is not what are my hands most likely to want to do when I'm attacked. It's what is the most effective thing I can pull off with my hands/found object/knife/gun in this circumstance. Then training is how do I get from reaction to trained response as efficiently as possible.

You may be right about the slashing thing. I tend toward the grab and stab line of thought myself, but either way we are going way beyond the natural/reflexive level.

 

[tradertator]

As far as a slashing motion goes, I've carried this for about a month now and have been very impressed. Designed by Michael Janich, who is a specialist in edged weapons and defense.

https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=707

 

[mercop]

IMHO the bee reference is very relevant because a hornet in your face gives you primal "oh ****" response just as a deadly force altercation within cutting range will.

If the choice between fixed and folder were based on having both in front of you, fixed blade out of sheath, and folder laying closed, then an obvious tool choice would be fixed. See the problem is the same with pistol work. People worry about the selection, and use more than the stumbling points of carry and deployment. To use any tool in a fight it goes like this-

Select it
Carry it
Deploy it
Us it

The hurdle with most fixed blade is in the carry and deployment as well. Most knife makers are not "knife fighters" if there is such a thing. Sheaths, both of leather and kydex are made to hold and protect the knife first, and sometimes thought is given to how they will be carried and deployed, but in my experience this is seldom the case. You need to figure out that part on your own. Since most knife makers are only sheath makers because they want to provide same with the knife, they focus less on the carry and deployment.

And just as with the folder, if you do not have a trainer for your fixed blade that allows you to train with it in the same exact carry and deployment option, you are kidding yourself if you think that you can deploy it at speed, with or without someone within cutting distance of you. Nobody with more than a room temperature IQ would attempt full speed draws with a live fixed blade, and you would have to find someone dumber than that to be your bad guy.

So lets just say you have selected a proven battle blade such as the Gryphon M-10, and got someone to make a trainer/drone for it that fits into the same sheath as the live one. Where are you going to carry it. It has to be accessible when sitting, standing, crouching, on your back, on your stomach, and with both hands from these positions.

With a training partner, try accessing the blade while in contact with them. You will soon find that fixed in a fight is nothing more than the knife version of 9MM vs 45.

Another issued with a fixed blade is that once it is out, the blade is in the game. A folder gives you the ability to palm it in a closed position at the slightest hint of danger. Anatomically speaking, a closed folder in the the head will stop a fight faster than a blade into the heart. The difference being that the latter is way likely to result in serious physical injury or death. It will also result in less of your attackers blood all over you. Another upside is that most people would hesitate less to hit someone with a closed folder than stab them in the chest. They would also likely do it earlier in the confrontation, and that could result in needing to use less subsequent force.

Truth be told, these days when someone asks me about carrying a knife for self-defense, before advising them on what I look for in a quality SD knife, first I tell them to make a habit of having a proper pen and flashlight with them all the time. Even better is to get into the habit of having that pen or flashlight in their hand whenever possible. You can do the same thing with the flashlight and pen as you can with the closed folder, in addition to being able to carry them in the most secure environments such as government buildings and airports.

It all comes down to a layered defense for both tactics and tools.- George

 

[jbombelli]

Truth be told, I'd much rather use a blackjack than a knife, any day. And unlike a knife, I've actually used a blackjack a time or two to defend myself. Once against a guy with a knife. He pulled his knife (a freaking steak knife of all things), I threw my cigar in his face to get him to look away for a second, and as I did that I pulled my blackjack from my back pocket, took a step and whacked him in the side of the head. Fight over.

As George said above, "...a closed folder in the the head will stop a fight faster than a blade into the heart..."

A blackjack will too. A blackjack to the head is a pretty good fight stopper.

A knife doesn't really stop anybody - it just makes them bleed profusely. It might collapse a lung, but they can still fight. It might cut an artery, but they can still fight. It might poke a kidney, or liver, or stomach, or whatever... but they can still fight. At least for a bit. And on top of that, there will be blood all over the place. That blood MIGHT just be infected with something.

But this is the Cutting Edge forum, and the question was about knives, so that's where I went.

 

[Knife Lady]

If a folder is all I had for self defense then by all means I would use it but I always carry a small fixed blade and I am more confident in it's performance over a folder anyday. Just my womanly opinion.

 

[tacticalhusky]

I would recommend going with a Benchmade 275 Adamas. It's a folder that will satisfy your need for a fixed blade. You can grab one on sale at cutleryshoppe.com for $124.31.

Youtube video - sootch00 Benchmade 275

 

[Stan]

Well my edc is a cold steel XL espada and it is really easy to carry iwb and waves out in a flash. It was 160 at the 1500 well worth the price.