Calling my Commander...

[powerstrokin]

I'm calling my Commander back right now on his cell just to chat about his stance on certain things. Wish me luck.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I'm calling my Commander back right now on his cell just to chat about his stance on certain things. Wish me luck.

Don't forget, young man, that the UCMJ limits certain of your normal rights and freedoms under the Constitution. Don't get busted for saying things you shouldn't.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'm calling my Commander back right now on his cell just to chat about his stance on certain things. Wish me luck.

I will wish you luck although I have no understanding of the circumstances.

 

[hornadylnl]

Don't forget, young man, that the UCMJ limits certain of your normal rights and freedoms under the Constitution. Don't get busted for saying things you shouldn't.

Imagine that. Those serving to protect the freedom of expression don't have it themselves.

 

[LEaSH]

Well, they do know that going in - and have my respect for that.

Their opinions matter to me. Even if they shouldn't express themselves regarding controversial subjects, I'd always listen to what they have to say.

There's never any shame in speaking up or standing for what is right. Even if there is a big consequence to that.

 

[hornadylnl]

Well, they do know that going in - and have my respect for that.

Their opinions matter to me. Even if they shouldn't express themselves regarding controversial subjects, I'd always listen to what they have to say.

There's never any shame in speaking up or standing for what is right. Even if there is a big consequence to that.

Oh, I understand the principle behind those regs. But those regs shouldn't serve as a shield for ****ty leaders.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Oh, I understand the principle behind those regs. But those regs shouldn't serve as a shield for ****ty leaders.

Agreed. A while back I was having dinner in Nashville and found myself absorbed in a really interesting conversation including on person who was just a couple of months shy of retiring from the military, and as he explained, he has no which to jeopardize his retirement by speaking out of turn. I made him an offer he couldn't refuse--he could be acceptably silent on the subject of bad leadership and I would slam Obama twice as much for him and me both. It worked really well!

 

[dukeboy_318]

Umm, I missed something? Where did this come from?

 

[powerstrokin]

I was respectful in asking what my Commander's personal stance on foreign policy was regarding Iran and other sovereign nations. My Chief called directly after and voiced the same general opinion. They pretty much said that if someone were to disagree with orders appointed to them, there was the consciencious objector regulation in the UCMJ. Note that I am NOT in a position currently to be eligible to deploy to a foreign nation, thus, I am not objecting to such acts personally but rather, on behalf of those serving beside me.

Response was somewhat disappointing but not surprising. Both leaders' responses suggested they have better things to do with their time than to talk to SrA about real matters. I really should have asked such questions to the ACC (Air Combat Command) Commander a month ago when he visited. (A General!)

This will require more effort on my part which I am not opposed to at all. I did take an oath. I'll see what I can do, folks.

Oh and my Commander said get on his calendar and find an open spot to appoint myself time for further discussion on the matter. What say ye? Anyone have any questions for the Commander of one of the largest and most active squadrons of the Air Combat Command?

 

[ChrisK]

I was respectful in asking what my Commander's personal stance on foreign policy was regarding Iran and other sovereign nations. My Chief called directly after and voiced the same general opinion. They pretty much said that if someone were to disagree with orders appointed to them, there was the consciencious objector regulation in the UCMJ. Note that I am NOT in a position currently to be eligible to deploy to a foreign nation, thus, I am not objecting to such acts personally but rather, on behalf of those serving beside me.

Response was somewhat disappointing but not surprising. Both leaders' responses suggested they have better things to do with their time than to talk to SrA about real matters. I really should have asked such questions to the ACC (Air Combat Command) Commander a month ago when he visited. (A General!)

This will require more effort on my part which I am not opposed to at all. I did take an oath. I'll see what I can do, folks.

Oh and my Commander said get on his calendar and find an open spot to appoint myself time for further discussion on the matter. What say ye? Anyone have any questions for the Commander of one of the largest and most active squadrons of the Air Combat Command?

As for your fellow airman that you are speaking for, what are their views on the subject?

 

[powerstrokin]

As for your fellow airman that you are speaking for, what are their views on the subject?

I made it clear that I was not speaking for anyone, rather, I was simply asking questions for my own satisfaction.

My PERSONAL belief is that we shouldn't intervene in foreign affairs simply because we are told to do so, but we should (at ALL levels) question the motives and justifications of those appointed above us.

A particular question I posed to Lt. Col. H***** was "If you believe an order goes against the oath we took, should you resign (as he suggested) OR stay your course and object to the best of your ability, thus providing more ammunition towards actual change to the system?"

 

[ChrisK]

A particular question I posed to Lt. Col. H***** was "If you believe an order goes against the oath we took, should you resign (as he suggested) OR stay your course and object to the best of your ability, thus providing more ammunition towards actual change to the system?"

That is a problem that all that serve struggle with through out our careers. I wish you luck, just remember to be respectful.

 

[powerstrokin]

That is a problem that all that serve struggle with through out our careers. I wish you luck, just remember to be respectful.

I understand.

I know it's a bad position to be in on his part. I'm late to the game on trying to do what I can to (hopefully) prevent unnecessary conflicts but better late than never.

As respectfully as I can, I'll get the man's opinion on things and proceed from there.

 

[dukeboy_318]

Just be careful in your approach, no need to ruin your career like the Marine in the facebook scandal a while back. While I do not agree with it, there are somethings best left for a discussion else where, the military has some pretty tight rules regarding the political side of things, just tread lightly and good luck.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I understand.

I know it's a bad position to be in on his part. I'm late to the game on trying to do what I can to (hopefully) prevent unnecessary conflicts but better late than never.

As respectfully as I can, I'll get the man's opinion on things and proceed from there.

Forgive me, but I'm not quite certain why it's important to you to put anyone else on the spot like that? The decision of whether or not to obey a lawful order - and any order that doesn't violate the UCMJ or the Laws of Warfare is a lawful order - has to be an individual one. As a Service Member, you do not get to decide whether or not to fight, be you a lowly E-1 or the Chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff; that is a decision for the National Command Authority - the civilian heads of the military.

If you think you're going to be involved in an unjust military conflict, you have two choices (actually you, personally, probably only have one choice); you can declare CO status, or you can resign your position. The question of whether we go to war with Iran or Syria or anyone else is strictly a civilian decision and other than providing input when requested by the NCA, the Joint Chiefs have little more say in such decisions than you do.

 

[KG1]

I understand.

I know it's a bad position to be in on his part. I'm late to the game on trying to do what I can to (hopefully) prevent unnecessary conflicts but better late than never.

I don't quite get what you're goals are here.

Is this the reason why you decided to join the military so you could try to bring about foreign policy change from within?

Do you actually think that you will personally have any impact in preventing "unnecessary conflicts"?

Are you possibly trying to see if you can influence as many Commanding Officers as you can to try and effect their decision making process?

I just don't get what you're overall objective is and what you hope to accomplish.

 

[ChrisK]

Forgive me, but I'm not quite certain why it's important to you to put anyone else on the spot like that? The decision of whether or not to obey a lawful order - and any order that doesn't violate the UCMJ or the Laws of Warfare is a lawful order - has to be an individual one. As a Service Member, you do not get to decide whether or not to fight, be you a lowly E-1 or the Chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff; that is a decision for the National Command Authority - the civilian heads of the military.

If you think you're going to be involved in an unjust military conflict, you have two choices (actually you, personally, probably only have one choice); you can declare CO status, or you can resign your position. The question of whether we go to war with Iran or Syria or anyone else is strictly a civilian decision and other than providing input when requested by the NCA, the Joint Chiefs have little more say in such decisions than you do.

You sir have given the best explanation to this subject I have ever read.
During my 24 years in service , I might have disagreed with some of the orders I had been given but I carried them out for the reasons you have given. If his Commander or Command Chief wants to take the time to sit and explain this to him, that is their perogitive. I have had "political discussions" with upper level commanders thru the years but it had no bearing on the job I was required to do. That is part of serving in the military.