Atheist Murals on Bloomington Buses

[Ness2k]

It is simply not truthful to claim these people are not against God. They are, and rudely so. They are intolerant of any Christians expressing their beliefs, while demanding the right to shout theirs loudly from the rooftops, and that we respect theirs. They proselytize, they preach their religion to our kids in school. It is possible to be good without God, but many of them, preach that there is no goodness in Christians, make claims that we are responsible for the evils of the world. They are as full of hatred and bigotry as any Klukker, and there is nothing good about such people, IMHO.

I'm not against something I don't have belief in. While I choose to live my life quietly and keep my (non)religious beliefs to myself, some athiests do not. A good majority of theists and atheists alike keep their opinions to themselves, but the ones who do not spread different messages.

The Atheist leaves a reassuring message to those who may be on a crooked path between believing or not, to let them know they can live a good, wholesome life without a belief in a god.

Have you ever read a religious billboard before? Accept Christ or go to Hell!
And you're the one outraged about a sign saying it's ok to be nice!

We don't want our faithless religion in schools, but we do want yours out. It might be your job as a religious man to spread your faith, but please don't do it to the highly impressionable children of others. Please do fill them in on the evil, tyranny, and death the wars and violence your religions have brought to this world in history class, however, because that is truth. Wait, we don't do that, because that would be against the Christian agenda.

 

[Caleb]

I'm not sure if somebody brought this up(didn't feel like reading 7 pages) but if they allowed to post what they want, wouldn't that mean christians would have equal rights to post contradicting ads on the same buses at the same time? If not, we have a problem...

 

[K_W]

Please don't take this as being rude, I'm in a hurry, but can't leave this unchallenged.

It is simply not truthful to claim these people are not against God. They are, and rudely so.

"You can be good without God" is not offensive
"Believe in God or burn forever in the eternal fires of Damnation" Is offensive

They are intolerant of any Christians expressing their beliefs, while demanding the right to shout theirs loudly from the rooftops, and that we respect theirs.

I and most other Atheists have no problem with you or any other religious person expressing your/their beliefs so long as your actions in doing so do not break any laws, use violence, or force your views upon us of our loved ones. We would like the same courtesy given to us. I very rarely see an Atheist acting in such a way as you have described.

They proselytize, they preach their religion to our kids in school.

I grew up in two of the largest school districts in the state and never once was either a religious or non religious agenda pushed upon me. The only time we (the Atheist community) raise our voices, in regards to education, is when religious groups try to bring prayer or the teachings of "intelligent design" in amoung the legitimate school curriculum.

It is possible to be good without God, [/qoute]

Correct

but many of them, preach that there is no goodness in Christians, make claims that we are responsible for the evils of the world. They are as full of hatred and bigotry as any Klukker, and there is nothing good about such people, IMHO.

Those that you describe are called "Militant Atheists" and they make up a small percentage of the Atheist population. Unlike the large percentage of Religious people who say the same about all Atheists without ever meeting and getting to know even just one.

Again please don't think I am being rude by challenging you.

 

[eatsnopaste]

So the bus signs are bad but the trucks plastered with pictures of aborted fetus and the airplane that was flying over my house trailing a huge picture of an aborted fetus was ok? This was done for over a WEEK in the name of religion. Not going to argue religion but i will argue what is right and wrong about how people try to push their agenda on people.

 

[Joe Williams]

snip

I grew up in two of the largest school districts in the state and never once was either a religious or non religious agenda pushed upon me. The only time we (the Atheist community) raise our voices, in regards to education, is when religious groups try to bring prayer or the teachings of "intelligent design" in amoung the legitimate school curriculum.
snip

You did, in fact, have religion pushed on you. You just didn't mind, because you support the Atheist/Humanist religion being taught in schools, the unproven and unprovable guesses that are being taught as scientific fact. Darwinism that even Darwin repudiated, beliefs that Darwin pointed out required even more and even blinder faith than Chrisitianity and what has been come to be called "intellegent design."

No, ya'll don't mind if Atheism is preached like that to our kids, if your religion is forced on us by the government in such fashion. You don't mind if the bigoted, dishonest viewpoint that Christianity is responsible for our world's evils (a viewpoint stated several times on just this thread) is forced on kids in history classes, despite the absolute, deliberate dishonesty of such teachings.

You call such teachings legitimate. Hitler said the same about his anti-religious beliefs.... he was just honest about his goals for folks who's religious beliefs he hated. I think you people have the same wishes for Christians. But you can't say so.. not yet.

Klukkers and atheists. Frankly, I often can't tell the difference. You say it's "militant" atheists. We both know it's not true. It's so called mainstream atheists, doing all they can to force us underground, to silence our right to speak, spitting on the Constitution with every effort they take to use Government force to supress our First Amendment rights.

I DO so hope you don't think I'm trying any harder to be rude than you were, though.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Would we be discussing this if it were a Christian billboard? No. Which means that Christians are mad that others might have a say so in what "word" is spread.

How about some Islamic billboards? That would cause a stir. I have seen more scientology comercials than I care to stomach. Still I hear no complaints. Christians have their own channel, still no complaints.

Perhaps the atheist billboard should have pointed out the hurt that Christianity has put on this world? How would Christians feel about that?

Why has no one addressed the "Be a Christian or burn in hell" question? This is OFFENSIVE in every way shape and form. The mere fact that someone is saying that there are other options out there to being a good person is getting many upset and I don't understand it.

Not trying to make anyone mad here. Great discussion.

 

[K_W]

This discussion is turning out great.

To Joe Williams, I have to be somewhere at 7, so I can't respond to you until later, but I will. Until then, take care.

 

[Crystalship1]

Joe Williams "Expert".... yep that fits!!!

I won't bother trying to expand your mind as you are clearly an expert on Atheists. Wow..... I wish I were just half as awesome as you!!!!

Please extend your expert opinions into the field of gays and lesbians, because I can hardly wait to see what kind of misguided hate and drivel you come up with, gentle christian!!!

 

[techres]

Let's keep it civil guys.

 

[Joe Williams]

Joe Williams "Expert".... yep that fits!!!

I won't bother trying to expand your mind as you are clearly an expert on Atheists. Wow..... I wish I were just half as awesome as you!!!!

Please extend your expert opinions into the field of gays and lesbians, because I can hardly wait to see what kind of misguided hate and drivel you come up with, gentle christian!!!

Tut, tut... "gentle Christian."

Surely you don't seriously think you have any right to demand I adhere to a code of conduct you sneer at, and in fact claim has no basis in reality or fact?

 

[Roadie]

It is also blatantly wrong for liberals to use litigation and legislation; which they say that 'Christians' use to enforce morals via legislation, to enforce their OWN beliefs about God.

The anti-God people are using legislation and the courts to enforce their own beliefs. Yet somehow, it's only the 'Christians' who are wrong for trying this tactic.

That folks, is how the liberal movement works. Cleverly disguising fables and motives by using cunningly devised plans and carefully laid words.

Just like the media does with our gun rights.

So go ahead, join their side, and support their mode of operations... it is only getting stronger and more aggressive on all fronts. Soon, we who own guns, love this country and believe that morals and traditional living ARE relevant to this day and age are soon to be 'domestic terrorists', labeled by the same rabble that worked to get this 'non-God bus sign' issue forced through.

Every atheist I have ever had a discussion with has said "Atheists do not proselytize like Christians do. We don't care if someone is an Atheist or not"

Oh, really?

I also find it odd that while saying "We don't hate Christians" the same posts contain slams against Christians and/or Christianity.

I will not apologize for my beliefs, nor will I apologize that they offend you. Those with religious viewpoints make up over 75% of the US population. So not only are you a minority, but we also have the 1st Amendment on our side. If you have a right to express your non-belief, we have a right to express ours. Period.

(EDIT: Actually, the stats are 76% of US Citizens profess to be Christians, 15% cite no religion, and the rest "other" religions as of a 2008 survey)

 

[Roadie]

Tut, tut... "gentle Christian."

Surely you don't seriously think you have any right to demand I adhere to a code of conduct you sneer at, and in fact claim has no basis in reality or fact?

Isn't that ironic? I have had many discussion with Atheists myself, in real life, and online, and they almost always accuse Christians of not being "very Christian". lol

I will not be quiet about my beliefs, nor will I be quiet about my rights (1st and 2nd Amend anyone?)

The bottom line in this discussion is that if a City, State, Federal etc government funded business will not allow religious lit, then they need to not allow anti-religious lit as well.

 

[Roadie]

So the bus signs are bad but the trucks plastered with pictures of aborted fetus and the airplane that was flying over my house trailing a huge picture of an aborted fetus was ok? This was done for over a WEEK in the name of religion. Not going to argue religion but i will argue what is right and wrong about how people try to push their agenda on people.

Yes, how awful for people to be against the deaths of unborn children! How dare they!

 

[Roadie]

Not sure I want to spend "eternity" with a jealous, petty diety who creates beings with inherent flaws, then throws them in the fire when they don't measure up. That is standard procedure in most belief systems, isn't it? Do what the book (written by man) says, or burn in hell? I can feel the love.

There is no one so blind as someone who is absolutely certain of something that is impossible to prove or disprove. If you had been raised in Saudi Arabia instead of the US, you'd be just as fervent about islam. I don't expect you to see the reality in that observation, however, as religion has nothing to do with logic or reason.

Oh, and just to keep this post on topic....let the athiests put whatever they want on the bus. If your faith is so shallow that an advertisement on a bus threatens it, the problem is not with the ad.

Then why are so many athiests protesting against Christian ads, monuments, writings, and beliefs, starting lawsuits, etc? To paraphrase your own words:

If your atheism is so shallow that an advertisement on a bus threatens it, the problem is not with the ad.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Klukkers and atheists. Frankly, I often can't tell the difference. You say it's "militant" atheists. We both know it's not true. It's so called mainstream atheists, doing all they can to force us underground, to silence our right to speak, spitting on the Constitution with every effort they take to use Government force to supress our First Amendment rights.

I DO so hope you don't think I'm trying any harder to be rude than you were, though.

To lump us all in like that isn't fair or accurate at all...

I'd really like to think I'm a bit different than Hitler, Klukkers and the mainstream atheists are...
I am a die hard conservative, a Constitutionalist and FULLY support religion in this country.
I actually defend religion when the nay sayers speak ill of it. I don't feel it is either sides part or moral responsibility to publicly speak negatively of either one. There is absolutely no point in arguing if there is or isn't a God , as it is a never ending debate.
The correct answer for things being taught in school is to send your children to the school that teaches the teachings you desire. Otherwise you would have to get involved with the school system to change the curriculum and I think that would be quite difficult. But one of the great freedoms we still have is choice in our children's education.

I may be an Atheist, but I'm certainly not your typical generalized Atheist.

 

[eatsnopaste]

Yes, how awful for people to be against the deaths of unborn children! How dare they!

Did you read the post you quoted...i said i wasn't debating religion, and the abortion topic has been done here also. The point was, it is ok for the Christian religion to fly huge banners of bloody babies over my house, and drive large vans with pictures of the same all over town, but YOU get your panties in a wad about a fairly benign bus advertisement. (we have those here also)

 

[rambone]

“I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.” -Albert Camus

Check out my poll on Religion:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_room/46469-what_is_your_religion.html

 

[BloodEclipse]

The correct answer for things being taught in school is to send your children to the school that teaches the teachings you desire.

Which is why I support school vouchers. If I have to pay for school through my taxes than my tax dollars should be spent on the school of my choice and not the one the State says I need to send them to.

IndyRoadie while I will agree that there is an organized attack on Christianity, there is a difference in the omission of religious materials and materials that outright attack religion.
Also just because one group or the other has a % of population means nothing. WE all are supposed to have our own individual freedoms, not to be dictated or controlled by any group, regardless of majority or minority.

Teaching sexuality in schools is way wrong. Teaching Johnny has two dads, offends me. This type of teaching undermines society. I don't care if Johnny has gay fathers, leaving this out does not mean a school system is ANTI-Gay no more than leaving out Religion means they are Anti-Religion.

The teaching of religion falls on the father of the family and not the school system. If your kids are not getting the needed exposure to Christianity don't blame anyone but yourself. If you have done your job correctly no amount of outside distractions will lead your children astray.

 

[Roadie]

Did you read the post you quoted...i said i wasn't debating religion, and the abortion topic has been done here also. The point was, it is ok for the Christian religion to fly huge banners of bloody babies over my house, and drive large vans with pictures of the same all over town, but YOU get your panties in a wad about a fairly benign bus advertisement. (we have those here also)

AH, so you are lumping all Christians into the ubiquitous "YOU". Nice stereotyping there.

My point is, as I stated in my previous posts, the hypocrisy of the situation. Atheists complain, whine, moan, and SUE because they feel like they shouldn't have to see or hear Christian beliefs, then are surprised when the roles are reversed??? That, is hypocrisy. Period.

I am for the 1st Amendment 120%. I will fight for anyone's right to express their opinions in a civil manner, even if I disagree with them. My problem is as I stated above. Don't complain about being offended by my Christianity, whining because you are being forced to be exposed to it, then turn around and use the same tactics and not expect someone to object.

 

[Roadie]

Which is why I support school vouchers. If I have to pay for school through my taxes than my tax dollars should be spent on the school of my choice and not the one the State says I need to send them to.

IndyRoadie while I will agree that there is an organized attack on Christianity, there is a difference in the omission of religious materials and materials that outright attack religion.
Also just because one group or the other has a % of population means nothing. WE all are supposed to have our own individual freedoms, not to be dictated or controlled by any group, regardless of majority or minority.

Teaching sexuality in schools is way wrong. Teaching Johnny has two dads, offends me. This type of teaching undermines society. I don't care if Johnny has gay fathers, leaving this out does not mean a school system is ANTI-Gay no more than leaving out Religion means they are Anti-Religion.

The teaching of religion falls on the father of the family and not the school system. If your kids are not getting the needed exposure to Christianity don't blame anyone but yourself. If you have done your job correctly no amount of outside distractions will lead your children astray.

I agree totally about religion being the responsibility of the parents. As I said before, the converse is true as well. Belief should be a choice anyway, I would not force my kids to be Christians, that is something they should come to on their own. Why is an atheist parent so afraid of their kids being exposed to Christian beliefs? Shouldn't they make that choice on their own as well?

While I agree in principle with your statement "WE all are supposed to have our own individual freedoms, not to be dictated or controlled by any group, regardless of majority or minority." the fact remains that the minority should not be dictating what the majority can or cannot do. i.e. Political Correctness. It is OK to offend Christians, but it is NOT OK to offend Atheists?