ATF Running Background Checks On Gun Buyers Retroactively

[JCSR]

I think Kentucky falls into this group.

AmmoLand News learned through a leaked Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) conference call that the agency is starting to run gun buyers retroactively through the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS).

https://www.ammoland.com/2021/07/ne...ks-on-gun-buyers-retroactively/#axzz6zT29wkeg

 

[armalitesheepdog]

So they are doing a background check after the sale that requires a background check to begin with? Am I missing something?

 

[Indyhd]

You think they might run Hunter Biden in those being checked ?

 

[JCSR]

So they are doing a background check after the sale that requires a background check to begin with? Am I missing something?

Not exactly. Some states like Kentucky/Alaska and maybe others allow sales with no NICS check if you are a current license or permit to carry holder. Just show your papers and walk out with no check.

 

[JEBland]

This may be a bit naive, but under the NFA, doesn't it bar the federal gov from keeping a registry for non-NFA items? I was under the impression that they could only keep records for 30 days or something for non-NFA items. Note that I'm not naive enough to believe that the government would keep their word.. but would like to understand this better.

 

[Cameramonkey]

This may be a bit naive, but under the NFA, doesn't it bar the federal gov from keeping a registry for non-NFA items? I was under the impression that they could only keep records for 30 days or something for non-NFA items. Note that I'm not naive enough to believe that the government would keep their word.. but would like to understand this better.

They are slowly, slowly, slowly and quietly using computer tech and OCR to create a defacto machine searchable (pseudo*) registration. But they wont tell you that is what they are doing. What they WILL tell you is they are taking the old 4473s handed over to them and scanning them into the computer for digital storage so they dont have to store warehouses of paper forms. That makes it so that those forms can be searched fairly easily now using Optical Character Recognition. But that's just a side effect of what they are doing. It is not being done intentionally with purpose, so its ok. What do you think happens to us when WE use that same excuse and break the law? "But I didnt INTEND to break the law by buying a solvent trap or owning an auto sear. I didnt install them so I didnt think I was doing anything wrong!"

And what are the odds that they'll "forget" to delete the scanned pages on the 7301st day after they are dated? (20 years plus 1 day)
Remember the dealer has to store the 4473 for 20 years. And when a dealer goes out of business, they have to send in those stored forms to the ATF. THOSE are the forms that are being scanned in.

And you can bet your life that they aren't gonna make an agent sit in front of a computer and flip page by page like he would trying to trace a gun the old way. He'll just enter in a search for "serial number 3284875" and in a few seconds up pops the 4473 he was looking for. 3 guesses what OTHER searches can be done.

And dont get me started on the big box stores and their digital 4473s. ATF can skip the OCR because that database is already searchable.

*but how many people just buy a gun and keep it forever and dont sell it to buy another like many of us hobbyists do?

 

[KellyinAvon]

After reading the article, it sounds like the ATF is running afoul of the law, and amuck.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Again showing that the ATF is running amuck and does whatever the hell they want....

The mother****ers need to be in cages.

 

[IndyDave1776]

They are slowly, slowly, slowly and quietly using computer tech and OCR to create a defacto machine searchable (pseudo*) registration. But they wont tell you that is what they are doing. What they WILL tell you is they are taking the old 4473s handed over to them and scanning them into the computer for digital storage so they dont have to store warehouses of paper forms. That makes it so that those forms can be searched fairly easily now using Optical Character Recognition. But that's just a side effect of what they are doing. It is not being done intentionally with purpose, so its ok. What do you think happens to us when WE use that same excuse and break the law? "But I didnt INTEND to break the law by buying a solvent trap or owning an auto sear. I didnt install them so I didnt think I was doing anything wrong!"

And what are the odds that they'll "forget" to delete the scanned pages on the 7301st day after they are dated? (20 years plus 1 day)
Remember the dealer has to store the 4473 for 20 years. And when a dealer goes out of business, they have to send in those stored forms to the ATF. THOSE are the forms that are being scanned in.

And you can bet your life that they aren't gonna make an agent sit in front of a computer and flip page by page like he would trying to trace a gun the old way. He'll just enter in a search for "serial number 3284875" and in a few seconds up pops the 4473 he was looking for. 3 guesses what OTHER searches can be done.

And dont get me started on the big box stores and their digital 4473s. ATF can skip the OCR because that database is already searchable.

*but how many people just buy a gun and keep it forever and dont sell it to buy another like many of us hobbyists do?

Not intentional? By that logic, if I have sex with a woman without the intention of getting her pregnant, I shouldn't be responsible for child support.

 

[foszoe]

The mother****ers need to be in cages.

BigRed, did you log into the wrong account?

 

[IndyDave1776]

BigRed, did you log into the wrong account?

 

[Oldschool1911s]

Not intentional? By that logic, if I have sex with a woman without the intention of getting her pregnant, I shouldn't be responsible for child support.

Yeah!! I thought I was only shooting blanks out of my pistol??

 

[IndyDave1776]

Yeah!! I thought I was only shooting blanks out of my pistol??

Regardless, they are arguing that a different point being their intent excuses them from actions actually done.

 

[Oldschool1911s]

Regardless, they are arguing that a different point being their intent excuses them from actions actually done.

Yes you are definitely right

 

[BigRed]

I think Kentucky falls into this group.

AmmoLand News learned through a leaked Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) conference call that the agency is starting to run gun buyers retroactively through the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS).

https://www.ammoland.com/2021/07/ne...ks-on-gun-buyers-retroactively/#axzz6zT29wkeg

I've said it before, I will say it again. ATF is the scum of scum. They take an oath to defend and protect the Constitution of the united States, then spend their entire career shredding it.

 

[BigRed]

Not intentional? By that logic, if I have sex with a woman without the intention of getting her pregnant, I shouldn't be responsible for child support.

Increasingly, that is the value system of many.

 

[BigRed]

Regardless, they are arguing that a different point being their intent excuses them from actions actually done.

They are ********. They can go straight to ****.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

This may be a bit naive, but under the NFA, doesn't it bar the federal gov from keeping a registry for non-NFA items? I was under the impression that they could only keep records for 30 days or something for non-NFA items. Note that I'm not naive enough to believe that the government would keep their word.. but would like to understand this better.

The NFA? No.

I believe you have confused the NFA with the NICS check somehow, after the Brady Bill was declared unconstitutional.

 

[Cameramonkey]

The NFA? No.

I believe you have confused the NFA with the NICS check somehow, after the Brady Bill was declared unconstitutional.

And to put a finer point on it you (JEBland) may be confusing that with form 4473 storage. Purchase records must be maintained by the dealers for 20 years. Any leftover 4473s still held by a shop when they close must be transferred to the feds (ATF?) to continue the safekeeping.

 

[2in1evtime]

By dealers having to keep the 4473's for as long as they do, that i think is a form of registration, they thought people wouldn't recognize. After 20 years though the dealer doesn't have to keep them though, correct me if i am wrong.