Afghan Taliban kill young woman, man for eloping

[printcraft]

Yep, I sure did. Saudi is conservative, I didn't say extremist because they are not, but they are so conservative it would seem that way to some.
.........

Just a quick question.... Are you channeling Janet Napolitano?

You keep repeating the "conservative" text. So are you trying to equate
conservative ideal to saudi ideals????

 

[dross]

While we may view pedophilia, etc as being wrong, we cannot judge Islams view on it based on our beliefs.

I am saying you are looking at Islam as a whole with an ethnocentric viewpoint. These extremist groups are an exception which must be noted. They do not represent the majority of Muslims.

When you have sex with a child, it is not an expression of the child's free will. That makes it a type of force, and therefore wrong.

I don't have to look at extremists, I can look at mainstream Saudi Arabia, where it's accepted and socially required to kill your daughter if she's raped.

This is wrong. Absolutely wrong, not just wrong for us.

We are endowed at birth with certain rights. So are the Saudi girls who were whipped back into a burning building to their deaths because they ran out of the fire with uncovered heads.

Flintlock, you're a young guy, but obviously smart. Reject the moral relativism you're learning in school. Right is right and wrong is wrong, here and over there.

 

[CarmelHP]

dross, save your writing, he doesn't get it and is incapable of getting it. You're giving way too much credit. That Muslim culture doesn't think pedophilia or beheading your 16 year old daughter for refusing to marry the 60 year old you sold her to is exactly the point. I don't care if they're depraved culture or an idiot apologist thinks it's OK for them to practice brutality. If that's ethnocentrism then hurrah for ethnocentrism. I don't need the "context," I don't need to look at it from their perspective. It's insane, and defending it is insane. Period.

The commonly held and "enlightened" view held by the cultural elite of our country is that right and wrong are relative. Moral relativism. We're supposed to take their beliefs on pedophilia, bestiality, beheadings, forced conversion, codified oppression, and many other wrongs as simply "their version of what's right." You see, it's right to them, but not to us, so therefore you're ethnocentric if you think they're just wrong.

The word "moral" brings up visions of goody-two-shoes Sunday school teacher types wagging their fingers. Even though Christians would disagree, it doesn't have to spring from religion, or the Bible, either. There is an absolute morality, and it can be summed up like this: No man may initiate force against another. This is where Islam and Islamic societies fall down. So does ours in many ways, look no further than the tax system. But on the linear scale of right and wrong based on initiation of force, Islamic societies are way further down on the scale.

It's wrong to oppress women. It's wrong to convert by force. It's wrong to punish with cruelty. It's wrong to have leaders not chosen by the people. Absolutely wrong, not just wrong depending on where you were born.

Our rights are endowed at birth, by the condition of being born a human, and it doesn't matter where we are born or what religion we are born into. Taking our rights by force is wrong, whether we are born in Saudi Arabia or the U.S.

 

[Flintlock]

When you have sex with a child, it is not an expression of the child's free will. That makes it a type of force, and therefore wrong.

I don't have to look at extremists, I can look at mainstream Saudi Arabia, where it's accepted and socially required to kill your daughter if she's raped.

This is wrong. Absolutely wrong, not just wrong for us.

We are endowed at birth with certain rights. So are the Saudi girls who were whipped back into a burning building to their deaths because they ran out of the fire with uncovered heads.

Flintlock, you're a young guy, but obviously smart. Reject the moral relativism you're learning in school. Right is right and wrong is wrong, here and over there.

I'm not saying I agree with what the Muslims do over there, I'm agueing that it is not representative of the religion as a whole. They may agree with that, but it is their culture, their religion. I realize everything they feed us in school isn't right or is full of liberal ideas, but I'm still going to argue this point. I don't agree with all of it, but I still feel that Islamic beliefs are being mis represented in this thread.

CarmelHP- You are missing the entire point if you do not read that in context. I guess you just didn't want to answer no. It was a yes or no question.

 

[CarmelHP]

I thought you were "done with me." What is the context of porking little girls? That their culture allows it? What is the context of setting afire women who go unveiled? Their culture allows it? You don't necessarily agree, but "que sera," right? That's insane. You're simply proving it's a culture that promotes, defends, and spreads brutality, by your own admissions. You are simply too brain-washed to know how crazy you're sounding here.

I'm not saying I agree with what the Muslims do over there, I'm agueing that it is not representative of the religion as a whole. They may agree with that, but it is their culture, their religion. I realize everything they feed us in school isn't right or is full of liberal ideas, but I'm still going to argue this point. I don't agree with all of it, but I still feel that Islamic beliefs are being mis represented in this thread.

CarmelHP- You are missing the entire point if you do not read that in context. I guess you just didn't want to answer no. It was a yes or no question.

 

[Flintlock]

I thought you were "done with me." What is the context of porking little girls? That their culture allows it? What is the context of setting afire women who go unveiled? Their culture allows it? You don't necessarily agree, but "que sera," right? That's insane. You're simply proving it's a culture that promotes, defends, and spreads brutality, by your own admissions. You are simply too brain-washed to know how crazy you're sounding here.

I'm saying that extremist viewpoints of it promote those things, but they are not representative of Islam as a whole.

 

[CarmelHP]

I'm saying that extremist viewpoints of it promote those things, but they are not representative of Islam as a whole.

Except that evidence of what the Muslims actually think, from the Pew Studies, is that hundreds of millions of them hold "extremist" views. You have given no contrary evidence except sucking on the hooka with Cairo busboys.

 

[Roadie]

FlintLock, in my opinion, the problem here is that you want to be "PC" and not infringe on someone else's beliefs. I would rather infringe on their beliefs, and protect women and children from rape, pedophilia, scarring with acid, flogging, etc.

You talk about taking things out of context, well jsut what context would you like to take the religious head of an entire COUNTRY proclaiming the right of men to marry 10 year old girls?? This isn't a fringe little sect, this is a COUNTRY.

If the majority of the religion is against this sort of thing, why aren't they crying out in protest? Why aren't they defeating the Taliban and Al Queda themselves?

 

[Flintlock]

FlintLock, in my opinion, the problem here is that you want to be "PC" and not infringe on someone else's beliefs. I would rather infringe on their beliefs, and protect women and children from rape, pedophilia, scarring with acid, flogging, etc.

You talk about taking things out of context, well jsut what context would you like to take the religious head of an entire COUNTRY proclaiming the right of men to marry 10 year old girls?? This isn't a fringe little sect, this is a COUNTRY.

If the majority of the religion is against this sort of thing, why aren't they crying out in protest? Why aren't they defeating the Taliban and Al Queda themselves?

I could care less about being "PC". I don't care what other think about me or my views or whether or not I hurt other peoples feelings by infringing on what they believe. I am not defending Islam to simply be PC. Although I do seem to be offending you all by defending it.

The beliefs of the head of a country are not neccessarily representative of what the people of the country believe. This isn't a very good comparison, but Obama doesn't represent what most people on this forum believe. And he isn't the head of a sect, he is the head of an entire COUNTRY.

They aren't defeating the Taliban and AQ on their own because they can't. They don't have the means, money, education, leaders, or tools to do so. Throughout the history of Islamic countries a powerful few have been in charge and subjected the people to their beliefs. It's the same thing is Islamic countries today.

 

[printcraft]

.......

You talk about taking things out of context, well jsut what context would you like to take the religious head of an entire COUNTRY proclaiming the right of men to marry 10 year old girls?? This isn't a fringe little sect, this is a COUNTRY.

If the majority of the religion is against this sort of thing, why aren't they crying out in protest? Why aren't they defeating the Taliban and Al Queda themselves?

Can you imaging the shi*storm that would descend upon any Christian church
if they were to proclaim "every priest needs a little boy"
Our position would not change that being "IT IS AN Abomination" but those,
let's say on the left who are currently defending another religion
(Islam because we need to understand their culture, it's ok for them)
would be right beside us with "See.. See.. Christians are messed up"

 

[Flintlock]

let's say on the left who are currently defending another religion
(Islam because we need to understand their culture, it's ok for them)
would be right beside us with "See.. See.. Christians are messed up"

You are really going to make me out as a leftist just for defending Islam?

 

[hookedonjeep]

Hell of a wedding present...... ammo!

But, somebody got the gift registry reciept wrong..... they were asking for ammo, but I am certain that they didn't want it delivered QUITE like that....

 

[finity]

The difference is that the teachings of Christianity are opposed to violence...

Umm...no they're not.

Did you read the link I provided that contained over 900 references to violence, condoned by 'god' (it's in 'the book' isn't it?).

Luckily our culture has progressed to the point that the religious fanatics among us are considered fringe groups. That doesn't mean that those fringe groups don't exist or that they don't have significant influence in some areas. Luckily (thank the FF's) we are not a theocracy or we would have the same kinds of things going on here as they do.

The argument is always made in these types of threads that Islam promotes violence & Christianity doesn't. That is wholly false. It's not the religions themselves that promote peace (& by the 'religions' I mean the scriptures of each religion) but the people who interpret it & act on it. Every major religion has some justification for violence & people willing to use it to further their objectives.

 

[finity]

Top Saudi cleric: OK for young girls to wed - CNN.com

Marrying 10 year olds is conservative?

marrying 10 year olds

What is the context of porking little girls?

You talk about taking things out of context, well jsut what context would you like to take the religious head of an entire COUNTRY proclaiming the right of men to marry 10 year old girls?? This isn't a fringe little sect, this is a COUNTRY.

Do you realize that before 1889 the age of consent in the USA (yes, here) was 10 years old. California was the first to raise the age to 14 then to 16.

I don't know a lot about Judaism but from what I have read the Talmud permits marriage & sex with a girl of 3 years & a day. (yes, a 3 year old). The sources I've seen are pretty convincing.

Since the Old Testament is based on the Jewish religion we can only assume that the characters in th OT must have also believed & followed this tradition.

There is also some evidence to believe that Mary (you know Jesus' mother) became pregnant at 11-14 yo & was given in marriage to Joseph at 7-9 yo.

If you are not Christian or Jewish & don't like these ages of consent/marriage, you have a right to label them all as pedophilic. If you are a Christian or Jewish then you are being a hypocrite to say that Islam is any worse than your own religion.

If you don't follow those teachings, that's Ok, too. You have the right to pick & choose which parts of your religion to follow. Remember, though, that most Muslims don't practice that part of their religion either.

 

[printcraft]

You are really going to make me out as a leftist just for defending Islam?

Flintlock, I did not mention you.
I was responding to "IndyRoadie" with my post.
If you interpreted that as aimed at you then you must have that as
a concern in your own mind.

But I honestly ask you...... who are the defenders of "radical Islam" in America today?
The left - with "we must understand them".

Who castigates the Christian religion at every opportunity - The left.

They can't condone one and oppose the other. (well they can but
it is disingenuous)

Every thread like this someone will bring up the "Christians have a
history of violence too" and while that is correct to a degree, TIMES CHANGE.

Time for Islam to get with this century - they are stuck about 300 +/- yrs in the past.

 

[Roadie]

Flintlock, I did not mention you.
I was responding to "IndyRoadie" with my post.
If you interpreted that as aimed at you then you must have that as
a concern in your own mind.

But I honestly ask you...... who are the defenders of "radical Islam" in America today?
The left - with "we must understand them".

Who castigates the Christian religion at every opportunity - The left.

They can't condone one and oppose the other. (well they can but
it is disingenuous)

Every thread like this someone will bring up the "Christians have a
history of violence too" and while that is correct to a degree, TIMES CHANGE.

Time for Islam to get with this century - they are stuck about 300 +/- yrs in the past.

Very good point. Every time someone defends Islam they say, "well look at Christianities past!" Then they quote the Old Testament, which is thousands of years old. Then try to compare that to Islam today.

So, by that logic, we used to keep slaves, so we can't stand up for people that are held as slaves in other countries today right? We used to do it to, right? Ludicrous!

 

[Roadie]

Do you realize that before 1889 the age of consent in the USA (yes, here) was 10 years old. California was the first to raise the age to 14 then to 16.

I don't know a lot about Judaism but from what I have read the Talmud permits marriage & sex with a girl of 3 years & a day. (yes, a 3 year old). The sources I've seen are pretty convincing.

Since the Old Testament is based on the Jewish religion we can only assume that the characters in th OT must have also believed & followed this tradition.

There is also some evidence to believe that Mary (you know Jesus' mother) became pregnant at 11-14 yo & was given in marriage to Joseph at 7-9 yo.

If you are not Christian or Jewish & don't like these ages of consent/marriage, you have a right to label them all as pedophilic. If you are a Christian or Jewish then you are being a hypocrite to say that Islam is any worse than your own religion.

If you don't follow those teachings, that's Ok, too. You have the right to pick & choose which parts of your religion to follow. Remember, though, that most Muslims don't practice that part of their religion either.

What do you mean they don't practice that part of their religion?? The Saudi Clerics edict allowing 10 year olds to be married was RECENT. This was an edict to an entire country of Muslims.

As for Mary, actually the majority of scholars feel her age was 14 to 17. However, women in those days married as a teen, and lived shorter lives.

See my example above about using the past, to justify the present. It's a ridiculous argument.

 

[finity]

What do you mean they don't practice that part of their religion?? The Saudi Clerics edict allowing 10 year olds to be married was RECENT.

If you read my post I said 'most' - not all.

Just like most Christians & Jews don't follow the part of their religious texts tht allow marriage to girls as young as 3.

You know as well as I that there are adherents in this country who still have very young teen brides (Texas anyone?) & in some places it is supported by law as long as the parents give permission.

Its rare but it does happen.

 

[Roadie]

If you read my post I said 'most' - not all.

Just like most Christians & Jews don't follow the part of their religious texts tht allow marriage to girls as young as 3.

You know as well as I that there are adherents in this country who still have very young teen brides (Texas anyone?) & in some places it is supported by law as long as the parents give permission.

Its rare but it does happen.

Are you really that dense? You are comparing Christians and Jews not following something in a book written 2000 years ago, to a recent edict from a Saudi Cleric. You really think this is the same thing?? One group evolved and corrects the mistakes of their past, the other groups is still committing pedophilia, rape, murder, maiming, torturing all in the name of their God to this day. How is there even remotely a comparison here?

..and I am sorry, but teen brides compared to 10 year olds is TOTALLY different. To make your argument you have to state "almosts" and "used tos", if that is the best argument you got, you have nothing.