A Tale of 3 Primers

[t-squared]

It was the best of primes, it was the worst of primes......

Having just bought my first "magnum" large pistol primers, I thought a little experiment was in order. I wanted to see the differences, if any, that primers would make velocity wise with a given load. The 3 I tried were Winchester LPP, CCI LPP, and CCI LPM. I've been getting my feet wet with reloading 10mm, and have some AA#9 that I need to burn through, so I decided to use it as my guinea pig. The load is a just below max book of 13.4gr of AA#9 under a 180gr bullet. It should yield a velocity in the 1250fps neighborhood......not nuclear by any means but still a "real" 10MM load. FYI, Accurate data uses the Winchester LPP. Trying to eliminate any variances, I used the same lot of powder, the same bullets- plated 180 grainers from LOS, the same cases- S&B that were all once fired, over the same chrono on the same day, out of the same SIG P220.

Winchester LPP


CCI LPP


CCI LPM


So, with THIS load, in THIS gun, the velocity differences seem to follow the primer's "strength" ratings. Winchester makes only one LPP and it's SUPPOSED to be an in between power level of sorts between a LPP and a LPM. In this little test it gave exactly that velocity wise, a bit more fps than a standard but less than the magnum. I was kinda surprised that the regular CCI gave a better SD than the magnum.....

 

[Squid556]

Great test!

I was under the impression that the magnum primers primary advantage shows up when you are trying to start a long / large volume and or a very compressed large volume. Makes me wonder if you would ever see the difference in the 10mm cartridge at all.

 

[t-squared]

From all of the research I've done, that's my conclusion as well.
#9 is the slowest powder I have that I would use for 10mm, so that's why I used it. I do have some 2400. but from what I've read it's more of a "if that's all you got" powder for 10mm. I've had good results from Longshot and Power Pistol in the 180gr loads I've tried, so they'll be what I use in the future. I'm thinking of repeating my test with both of those just to satisfy my curiosity. Neither is known for needing a magnum primer to perform well, but with components still being hard to find it might be nice to know if/how much a magnum primer substutution would affect the load.

 

[armalitesheepdog]

This is a very good video on spp vs mag spp

 

[DadSmith]

It was the best of primes, it was the worst of primes......

Having just bought my first "magnum" large pistol primers, I thought a little experiment was in order. I wanted to see the differences, if any, that primers would make velocity wise with a given load. The 3 I tried were Winchester LPP, CCI LPP, and CCI LPM. I've been getting my feet wet with reloading 10mm, and have some AA#9 that I need to burn through, so I decided to use it as my guinea pig. The load is a just below max book of 13.4gr of AA#9 under a 180gr bullet. It should yield a velocity in the 1250fps neighborhood......not nuclear by any means but still a "real" 10MM load. FYI, Accurate data uses the Winchester LPP. Trying to eliminate any variances, I used the same lot of powder, the same bullets- plated 180 grainers from LOS, the same cases- S&B that were all once fired, over the same chrono on the same day, out of the same SIG P220.

Winchester LPP
View attachment 198141

CCI LPP
View attachment 198144

CCI LPM
View attachment 198145

So, with THIS load, in THIS gun, the velocity differences seem to follow the primer's "strength" ratings. Winchester makes only one LPP and it's SUPPOSED to be an in between power level of sorts between a LPP and a LPM. In this little test it gave exactly that velocity wise, a bit more fps than a standard but less than the magnum. I was kinda surprised that the regular CCI gave a better SD than the magnum.....

Great information. Thanks for sharing.

 

[STFU]

This is a very good video on spp vs mag spp

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing this.

 

[Robert Richardson]

I've never seen any majors difference in velocity between magnum and standard primers in handguns or rifle.

 

[t-squared]

So I had a chance to test a couple other powders this morning. I used Power Pistol since it's somewhere in the middle of the burn rate chart for handgun powders and is a popular choice for 10mm loads. I also used Titegroup for my last comparison. It's certainly not known to be a very desirable powder for the 10mm, but I wanted to see how a "fast" powder would be affected, or not, by a primer substitution.

Here's the results with a load of 8.4gr of Power Pistol:

CCI LPP
Created: 05/07/22 07:13 AM
Description: 10mm. PP 8.4.
Notes 1: CCI LPP
Notes 2: 180gr
Distance to Chrono(FT): 15.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: N/A °F
BP: N/A inHg
Altitude: 0.00
# FPS FT-LBS PF
8 1254 628.61 225.72
7 1256 630.62 226.08
6 1238 612.67 222.84
5 1226 600.85 220.68
4 1259 633.64 226.62
3 1213 588.18 218.34
2 1263 637.67 227.34
1 1246 620.62 224.28
Average: 1244.4 FPS
SD: 17.5 FPS
Min: 1213 FPS
Max: 1263 FPS
Spread: 50 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.2
True MV: 1246 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00

Winchester LPP
Created: 05/07/22 07:14 AM
Description: 10mm. PP 8.4.
Notes 1: Win LPP
Notes 2: 180gr
Distance to Chrono(FT): 15.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: N/A °F
BP: N/A inHg
Altitude: 0.00
# FPS FT-LBS PF
9 1234 608.72 222.12
8 1268 642.73 228.24
7 1258 632.63 226.44
6 1266 640.70 227.88
5 1263 637.67 227.34
4 1239 613.66 223.02
3 1279 653.93 230.22
2 1245 619.62 224.10
1 1264 638.68 227.52
Average: 1257.3 FPS
SD: 14.9 FPS
Min: 1234 FPS
Max: 1279 FPS
Spread: 45 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.3
True MV: 1259 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00

CCI LPM
Created: 05/07/22 07:09 AM
Description: 10mm. PP 8.4.
Notes 1: CCI LPM
Notes 2: 180gr
Distance to Chrono(FT): 15.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: N/A °F
BP: N/A inHg
Altitude: 0.00
# FPS FT-LBS PF
7 1287 662.13 231.66
6 1279 653.93 230.22
5 1291 666.26 232.38
4 1279 653.93 230.22
3 1285 660.08 231.30
2 1269 643.74 228.42
1 1268 642.73 228.24
Average: 1279.7 FPS
SD: 8.8 FPS
Min: 1268 FPS
Max: 1291 FPS
Spread: 23 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.2
True MV: 1281 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00

It seems that Power Pistol, at least in this load, gives velocity increases that mirror the primer's "strength".

And here are my Titegroup results:

CCI SPP
Created: 05/07/22 07:05 AM
Description: 10mm. TG 5.8.
Notes 1: CCI LPP
Notes 2: 180gr
Distance to Chrono(FT): 15.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: N/A °F
BP: N/A inHg
Altitude: 0.00
# FPS FT-LBS PF
7 1093 477.56 196.74
6 1095 479.31 197.10
5 1089 474.07 196.02
4 1094 478.43 196.92
3 1091 475.81 196.38
2 1086 471.46 195.48
1 1089 474.07 196.02
Average: 1091.0 FPS
SD: 3.2 FPS
Min: 1086 FPS
Max: 1095 FPS
Spread: 9 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.1
True MV: 1092 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00

Winchester LPP
Created: 05/07/22 07:03 AM
Description: 10mm. TG 5.8.
Notes 1: Win LPP
Notes 2: 180gr
Distance to Chrono(FT): 15.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: N/A °F
BP: N/A inHg
Altitude: 0.00
# FPS FT-LBS PF
8 1085 470.60 195.30
7 1102 485.46 198.36
6 1109 491.64 199.62
5 1107 489.87 199.26
4 1125 505.93 202.50
3 1113 495.20 200.34
2 1133 513.15 203.94
1 1097 481.06 197.46
Average: 1108.9 FPS
SD: 15.2 FPS
Min: 1085 FPS
Max: 1133 FPS
Spread: 48 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.2
True MV: 1110 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00

CCI LPM
Created: 05/07/22 07:07 AM
Description: 10mm. TG 5.8gr.
Notes 1: CCI LPM
Notes 2: 180gr
Distance to Chrono(FT): 15.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 180.00
Temp: N/A °F
BP: N/A inHg
Altitude: 0.00
# FPS FT-LBS PF
10 1115 496.98 200.70
9 1097 481.06 197.46
8 1113 495.20 200.34
7 1100 483.70 198.00
6 1114 496.09 200.52
5 1102 485.46 198.36
4 1084 469.73 195.12
3 1114 496.09 200.52
2 1102 485.46 198.36
1 1094 478.43 196.92
Average: 1103.5 FPS
SD: 10.4 FPS
Min: 1084 FPS
Max: 1115 FPS
Spread: 31 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.3
True MV: 1105 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00

Seems there was a small increase in velocity from the CCI LPP to the Winchester. But what's surprising is bumping up to the Magnum actually resulted in a decrease in velocity.