45 ACP at 1900 fps?!

[longbarrel]

Sectional density is extremely low. Won't penetrate for crap.

I wouldn't volunteer to stand in front of one, with or without leather/denim/kevlar/lead or anything else

 

[snowwalker]

I have some. I would really like to see what it does to a pig or a deer or a cow.

 

[Rob377]

I wouldn't volunteer to stand in front of one, with or without leather/denim/kevlar/lead or anything else

Why do people think this is a clever retort? Would you volunteer to get kicked in the junk? Does a reasonable person's refusal to get kicked in the junk make a pair of Nikes the best self defense option around?

 

[NHT3]

I'm a bit ballistically challenged, unlike some on the board. I only know what little I've witnessed with my own eyes. Light projectiles going really fast do tend to have their share of fans. I can tell you that the 22TCM pistol will penetrate the kevlar that the current US issued helmet is made out of and have video to prove it. I don't think than anyone would argue that 45 Ball would be better for penetrating a windshield and taking out a bad guy but if your target is not behind "cover" I would imagine that the light, high velocity projectile would be more than adequate for the task..
Just my laymans .02 worth of opinion.

OH, and as silly as it may sound to some, as longbarrel said, I wouldn't want to "catch" one either.
[FONT=&quot]NRA Life member [/FONT][FONT=&quot]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Gunsite graduate Certified Glock armorer[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1911 Mechanic[/FONT]

 

[in625shooter]

This seems misguided. I mean the thing that makes a 45 ACP a good performer is a 230 gr bullet at 850-900 fps. If you make a way lighter bullet at higher velocity why not use something smaller that goes just as fast? The only thing they have changed is the velocity and sectional density of the bullet which performance wise within the target I would bet they will loos performance rather than gain it.

I can't help but think of the old addage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

 

[snowwalker]

This seems misguided. I mean the thing that makes a 45 ACP a good performer is a 230 gr bullet at 850-900 fps. If you make a way lighter bullet at higher velocity why not use something smaller that goes just as fast? The only thing they have changed is the velocity and sectional density of the bullet which performance wise within the target I would bet they will loos performance rather than gain it.

I can't help but think of the old addage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

My winter carry in the 45acp is 165 grain +P Corbon Pow'rBall. IMO that is a much better setup. My summer carry is Ranger SXT, again a very good setup.

 

[in625shooter]

My winter carry in the 45acp is 165 grain +P Corbon Pow'rBall. IMO that is a much better setup. My summer carry is Ranger SXT, again a very good setup.

Corbon has been doing it long enough and there is nothing wrong with a 165 gr. However when you go much below that whats the real difference between that and a 158 gr 357? Nothing except the bullets senctional density!

 

[longbarrel]

Why do people think this is a clever retort? Would you volunteer to get kicked in the junk? Does a reasonable person's refusal to get kicked in the junk make a pair of Nikes the best self defense option around?

I don't think it is clever. I also don't think getting shot by a 230 grain or 70 grain, or 17 grain bb would be something that I (myself) would be willing to do? It has nothing to do with retort. Just saying if it is supposedly going to be a failure, ballistically speaking, then it should not bother a person to be in the way of one Also, no junk kicking volunteer here.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't think it is clever. I also don't think getting shot by a 230 grain or 70 grain, or 17 grain bb would be something that I (myself) would be willing to do? It has nothing to do with retort. Just saying if it is supposedly going to be a failure, ballistically speaking, then it should not bother a person to be in the way of one Also, no junk kicking volunteer here.

So, in your world, since I would rather not stub my toe and would rather not have my leg cut off, they are equal? That's basically what you are saying, as long as someone isn't willing to stand in front of it, then its not a failure and therefore equal.

The "wouldn't stand in front of it" test is as meaningless as the "a hit with "X" caliber is better than a miss with "Y" caliber.

 

[scottm]

I have to say that the very light sectional density, large meplat/cavity and high velocity would create shallow penetration. 8" in plain gel or even 4ply denim gel does not account for breast plate, arms, etc. that would be in line with a torso shot. these qualifiers may be fine for some to use this as self defense ammo, but personally I believe the 185-230 gr rounds are the proven performers that meet duty/carry requirements.

 

[antsi]

I'm a bit ballistically challenged, unlike some on the board. I only know what little I've witnessed with my own eyes. Light projectiles going really fast do tend to have their share of fans. I can tell you that the 22TCM pistol will penetrate the kevlar that the current US issued helmet is made out of and have video to prove it. I don't think than anyone would argue that 45 Ball would be better for penetrating a windshield and taking out a bad guy but if your target is not behind "cover" I would imagine that the light, high velocity projectile would be more than adequate for the task..
Just my laymans .02 worth of opinion.

OH, and as silly as it may sound to some, as longbarrel said, I wouldn't want to "catch" one either.
[FONT=&quot]NRA Life member [/FONT][FONT=&quot]GSSF member[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Gunsite graduate Certified Glock armorer[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1911 Mechanic[/FONT]

Light and fast can be a good penetrator... when the sectional density is high (as in the example you cited).

A light .45 will NOT have high sectional density.

Someone else above made the example of a flat washer versus a dart. Same weight, same velocity, but the dart penetrates way better because it has a much higher sectional density.

A 77 grain .223 has high sectional density.
A 77 grain .45 does not.

 

[Lodogg2221]

After 109 years of use and development and given the advancements along the way with all things firearm related, if the .45 ACP hasnt gotten way better before now, its not likely to.
Ill stick with whats already proven in the .45.
I believe at this point the round is more limited by the firearm than it is by the design of the round itself....and thats just fine, because it works wonderfully.

 

[Boost Lee]

I'm hearing great things from these rounds HOWEVER,
If you're looking for something in self defense, make sure the BG/assailant isn't wearing thick clothing.........

.....It just might not make it through his skin.

 

[Jeremy1066]

It would be like throwing a flat washer at someone. Too wide and too thin. The added velocity would make the penetration even worse as it would probably fragment horrendously. The high ft/lb of energy sounds exciting, but in this case, it's irrelevant. Of course this is just my opinion considering physics and simple math. I've never seen or used this ammunition.

 

[longbarrel]

So, in your world, since I would rather not stub my toe and would rather not have my leg cut off, they are equal? That's basically what you are saying, as long as someone isn't willing to stand in front of it, then its not a failure and therefore equal.

The "wouldn't stand in front of it" test is as meaningless as the "a hit with "X" caliber is better than a miss with "Y" caliber.

Basically, yes

 

[Jeremiah]

This is why I stay with the .45 ACP
If you are going to throw a projectile at someone in anger...throw all that is available and make it count.

Welcome to ingo.

why I like 220 grain 10mm

 

[Cowboy45]

You guys should look this ammo up on YouTube before ya start judging it because of its weight.. There is a private test not related to Liberty where they shoot these rounds into LIIIA body armor and it penetrated 20 layers of Kevlar and 2 layers of spectra.. I think I spelled the second one right.. They explode like a mini grenade in the gel tests they do.. The wound cavity dwarfs the other round they test.. And get around 13" of penatration.. Also they shoot i believe 185 grain federal HP to compare to.. I plan on getting some and shooting them into a side of hog with a leather jacket on.. Before i actually carry them.. If you guys are interested in the results I will post em on here after..

 

[mattritchie238]

I know that Cowboy has finished his personal testing. So, if anyone wants to see the results, I'm sure he would be happy to share them.

 

[ryan3030]

Please do share.

 

[gunman41mag]

If you want velocity, just buy a GRIZZLY 45 WIN MAG .45 Win Mag 230g Hornady XTP - Reed's Ammunition & Research, LLC