-
Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
44.automag
- Thread starter doddsracing
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
The only place I've seen them is in one of the collectors' cases at the Indy1500. I think the early automags had some problems with reliability, but I don't know about the later versions. I do know they're crazy expensive - and expensive to run, too.
ROLEXrifleman
Master
the 44 automag is a 30.06 or .308 case cut down to 1.298 and the case mouth reamed to accept a .430dia bullet. But to do this you need a 5 piece die set. The starline brass would require the traditional 3 die set. BTW, the 3 die set is about $100.
So as far as loading, you can see it's expensive. And there is no factory ammo available. As far as data goes, I would never load anything above a 240 gr bullet with 21gr H110 to get a1241 FPS.
Now to the gun....... I don't care if it's a Hollywood gun, Pasadina, wherever. (if you dont know what that means you are not ready to buy an AutoMag) The AutoMAg is picky and has never liked a steady diet of the max load described above. These guns are old, prone to breakage and have no parts available!
If you wantto buy one to put pet loads through and baby no problem. But you better make sure the guy b4 you didnt beat it up.
On top of that why would you want to pay $2K for a gun you have to pamper? You can get a $600 Ruger and load a 240gr bullet with 24gr of H110 and get 1817fps and crush the performance of the AutoMag.
The fact is the AutoMag was cool for it's time. Magnum performance in a semi auto. Thats always been the goal for firearms manufactures. Now you have way to many options for a firearm that's semi auto and delivers performance greater than the .44 AutoMag at a fraction of the cost. If your looking for an AutoMag to be s hooter you better bring a bank roll to keep up. If you wantto sit and stare at it thats another story. For me, I got rid of my three AutMags and went Wildy. If I was gonna dump serious coin into shooting something it was going to be something ballisticaly hard to meet. Out went the .44 AMP and in came the .475 Wildy
Good Luck
So as far as loading, you can see it's expensive. And there is no factory ammo available. As far as data goes, I would never load anything above a 240 gr bullet with 21gr H110 to get a1241 FPS.
Now to the gun....... I don't care if it's a Hollywood gun, Pasadina, wherever. (if you dont know what that means you are not ready to buy an AutoMag) The AutoMAg is picky and has never liked a steady diet of the max load described above. These guns are old, prone to breakage and have no parts available!
If you wantto buy one to put pet loads through and baby no problem. But you better make sure the guy b4 you didnt beat it up.
On top of that why would you want to pay $2K for a gun you have to pamper? You can get a $600 Ruger and load a 240gr bullet with 24gr of H110 and get 1817fps and crush the performance of the AutoMag.
The fact is the AutoMag was cool for it's time. Magnum performance in a semi auto. Thats always been the goal for firearms manufactures. Now you have way to many options for a firearm that's semi auto and delivers performance greater than the .44 AutoMag at a fraction of the cost. If your looking for an AutoMag to be s hooter you better bring a bank roll to keep up. If you wantto sit and stare at it thats another story. For me, I got rid of my three AutMags and went Wildy. If I was gonna dump serious coin into shooting something it was going to be something ballisticaly hard to meet. Out went the .44 AMP and in came the .475 Wildy
Good Luck
ROLEXrifleman
Master
Better hurry on the grizzly bandwagon, those keep climbing in price.
I have no interest in an auto .44 handgun.
DE's fit me OK, but I never quite liked the grip of the LAR's.
Regular Smith 629-3 is good enough for me (if i can find a 4" that doesn't cost a kidney)
Do like an auto .44 rifle though
DE's fit me OK, but I never quite liked the grip of the LAR's.
Regular Smith 629-3 is good enough for me (if i can find a 4" that doesn't cost a kidney)
Do like an auto .44 rifle though
bigkahunasix
Marksman
The most common parts that break are- extractor,ejector,recoil spring guide rods and springs. All currently available.
I have had several, they are a fun gun and I have never had much trouble with them. I still have a set of RCBS dies and at least one box of ammo in my storage room.
I have had several, they are a fun gun and I have never had much trouble with them. I still have a set of RCBS dies and at least one box of ammo in my storage room.
ROLEXrifleman
Master
I've broken a bolt, extractor, Bolt rotation pin and recoil rods.
Last time I contacted Automagparts.com for an extractor I was told they were out and out of many parts.
If I recall correctly Mr Sanford died many years ago and lots of his personal collection was sold. The son even tried selling the tooling located in Illinois.
At any rate, if there are more places to buy parts from other than Automagparts then I missed out. Also, if there is in stock ammo it was never available when I had my guns. It was always an order and wait time, which to me meant I could reload and get my ammo faster and cheaper.
Fun guns no doubt, just know what your getting into.
Last time I contacted Automagparts.com for an extractor I was told they were out and out of many parts.
If I recall correctly Mr Sanford died many years ago and lots of his personal collection was sold. The son even tried selling the tooling located in Illinois.
At any rate, if there are more places to buy parts from other than Automagparts then I missed out. Also, if there is in stock ammo it was never available when I had my guns. It was always an order and wait time, which to me meant I could reload and get my ammo faster and cheaper.
Fun guns no doubt, just know what your getting into.
Went to the web sight and see where the company with all the tooling is for sale.
Wonder if you ran new guns on cnc machines and get rid of some of the cast parts if it would be a better gun.
Could you sell enough to cover your investment?
Wonder if you ran new guns on cnc machines and get rid of some of the cast parts if it would be a better gun.
Could you sell enough to cover your investment?
Last edited:
I have two Automags- a 6 1/2" barreled .44 and an 8 1/2" barreled .357. The .357 is the .44 case necked down, and is probably the more interesting cartridge, but I've shot the .44 a lot more.
As said, Starline makes brass. You can buy the forming dies from RCBS, but it's a lot of time and work. Just for the expense of the dies, you could buy a lot of brass. There was no Starline brass when I got my AMs. My .44 came with a case forming set, but was missing a couple of parts. I ordered those, they came in, and got maybe 150 rounds of brass made when Starline announced they were selling it. I don't think I made another case after that. The reaming and annealing sucks.
What are they good for? Well, you sorta have to want one.
I will admit that the Desert Eagle in .44 will probably do anything an AM will do, and do it for less, with ammo you can buy at WalMart. I could say the AM is better at this or that, but the truth is: I just think it's neat.
At the time they came out, you have to remember the only .44 Mag handguns were the S&W 29 and Ruger Super Blackhawk. You couldn't even get a .44 Mag Contender barrel yet. There were only a couple of stainless guns, and they were revolvers. A decent stainless 1911 was years away.
And into this came an auto that shot a .44 Mag equivalent round, and was all stainless steel? That was amazing. I was a little kid then, but I knew what a big deal that was.
Now it's over 40 years later, and you still can't get much like it. Yeah, you can get a DE almost anywhere, and the Grizzly and Wildey seem to come and go. To me, the AutoMag is the only one with a fairly decent grip. DE feels like a brick. The Grizzly is similar. The Wildey feels better to me, but the one Wildey I shot (.45 Win Mag) was more problematic than either of my AMs have ever been. The Wildey's owner fiddled around with the gas adjustment until it ran for him...then it wouldn't work for me. I really don't think it's a problem if it has to be adjusted to the user, but it was interesting.
I always liked the AM from the first picture I saw, but the DE, Grizzly, and Wildey never interested me. Some of it is the AM grip feeling better to me, some of it is appearance (I think the AM looks better than the others by a long shot), and some is the mechanics. I think the AM is the most interesting mechanically. I don't think there was anything new in the gun, except maybe the combination of design features.
The recoil system is sort of like a Browning MG, the bolt is like a Johnson, the recoil springs like a P-38, and the trigger system is very High Standard-like.
I have a lot of 1970s gun magazines with AM articles, and have the complete set of newsletters from Lee Jurras' old AutoMag club (Club d'AutoMag Internationale) and some of the loads listed in those old articles scare me to death! I wouldn't let them near my guns. It's no wonder they broke so many back then. I don't know, but it seems to me people tried to see how far they could push it with AMs. The hottest I
I've loaded mine was with enough Win 296 to hit 1460 fps with a 240, which is not earth-shaking but plenty I think. Much more, and I want more bullet. Some of those loads in the old articles went 1600+ with the 240. Based on the charge weights, they were probably not exaggerating (much).
They published some impressive figures, but cracked a lot of bolts too. Maybe they felt that was OK when bolts were still in production, but I don't want to push it. The load I use most is about a half grain more than the lightest that will operate it reliably.
Late bolts and bolt cam pins were different. The bolt had a groove that a shorter pin ran in, instead of the slot cut completely through for the cam pin to run across. This seems to have helped, but IMO, a better plan would be to back off the throttle some.
And that brings up a point. They did make changes as they went along, even if production wasn't very high. They would change part designs or materials used to work better or last longer. Some of it was being early in the stainless days and they were trying different materials to prevent "galling" and some was because they had a better idea. Kent Lomont's articles in the 1977 and 78 (I think that's the years) Gun Digest cover this. For that reason, it might be better to get a later AM for a shooter.
And they do shoot nice. I have never kept a .44 Mag revolver long because I don't like the recoil, but the AM feels fine. I can shoot it all day. Some of that is weight, but some is design- I can feel the action spreading the recoil out like a shock absorber.
It's an accurate thing, too. I have a Ransom Rest and used to shoot it from the rest at SVGC when it was still at Bloomington. At 50 yards, it could put a magazine under 2" most times, and a little better with what it liked.
What it doesn't like to do is to be shot a long time without cleaning. There are too many tight areas that need a coat of oil, and combined with the use of slow powders that can leave unburned granules behind in the oil, it would get sluggish after a few magazines and start choking. Usually, I could pull the barrel and barrel extension (upper receiver) wipe it down and re-lube, and be OK for a while longer. It's not something I could shoot boxes of ammo through without care, but it wasn't meant to be either.
I like them. They aren't guns you just buy ammo, load it up, and go shoot, but that's OK. They aren't normal handguns.
As said, Starline makes brass. You can buy the forming dies from RCBS, but it's a lot of time and work. Just for the expense of the dies, you could buy a lot of brass. There was no Starline brass when I got my AMs. My .44 came with a case forming set, but was missing a couple of parts. I ordered those, they came in, and got maybe 150 rounds of brass made when Starline announced they were selling it. I don't think I made another case after that. The reaming and annealing sucks.
What are they good for? Well, you sorta have to want one.
I will admit that the Desert Eagle in .44 will probably do anything an AM will do, and do it for less, with ammo you can buy at WalMart. I could say the AM is better at this or that, but the truth is: I just think it's neat.
At the time they came out, you have to remember the only .44 Mag handguns were the S&W 29 and Ruger Super Blackhawk. You couldn't even get a .44 Mag Contender barrel yet. There were only a couple of stainless guns, and they were revolvers. A decent stainless 1911 was years away.
And into this came an auto that shot a .44 Mag equivalent round, and was all stainless steel? That was amazing. I was a little kid then, but I knew what a big deal that was.
Now it's over 40 years later, and you still can't get much like it. Yeah, you can get a DE almost anywhere, and the Grizzly and Wildey seem to come and go. To me, the AutoMag is the only one with a fairly decent grip. DE feels like a brick. The Grizzly is similar. The Wildey feels better to me, but the one Wildey I shot (.45 Win Mag) was more problematic than either of my AMs have ever been. The Wildey's owner fiddled around with the gas adjustment until it ran for him...then it wouldn't work for me. I really don't think it's a problem if it has to be adjusted to the user, but it was interesting.
I always liked the AM from the first picture I saw, but the DE, Grizzly, and Wildey never interested me. Some of it is the AM grip feeling better to me, some of it is appearance (I think the AM looks better than the others by a long shot), and some is the mechanics. I think the AM is the most interesting mechanically. I don't think there was anything new in the gun, except maybe the combination of design features.
The recoil system is sort of like a Browning MG, the bolt is like a Johnson, the recoil springs like a P-38, and the trigger system is very High Standard-like.
I have a lot of 1970s gun magazines with AM articles, and have the complete set of newsletters from Lee Jurras' old AutoMag club (Club d'AutoMag Internationale) and some of the loads listed in those old articles scare me to death! I wouldn't let them near my guns. It's no wonder they broke so many back then. I don't know, but it seems to me people tried to see how far they could push it with AMs. The hottest I
I've loaded mine was with enough Win 296 to hit 1460 fps with a 240, which is not earth-shaking but plenty I think. Much more, and I want more bullet. Some of those loads in the old articles went 1600+ with the 240. Based on the charge weights, they were probably not exaggerating (much).
They published some impressive figures, but cracked a lot of bolts too. Maybe they felt that was OK when bolts were still in production, but I don't want to push it. The load I use most is about a half grain more than the lightest that will operate it reliably.
Late bolts and bolt cam pins were different. The bolt had a groove that a shorter pin ran in, instead of the slot cut completely through for the cam pin to run across. This seems to have helped, but IMO, a better plan would be to back off the throttle some.
And that brings up a point. They did make changes as they went along, even if production wasn't very high. They would change part designs or materials used to work better or last longer. Some of it was being early in the stainless days and they were trying different materials to prevent "galling" and some was because they had a better idea. Kent Lomont's articles in the 1977 and 78 (I think that's the years) Gun Digest cover this. For that reason, it might be better to get a later AM for a shooter.
And they do shoot nice. I have never kept a .44 Mag revolver long because I don't like the recoil, but the AM feels fine. I can shoot it all day. Some of that is weight, but some is design- I can feel the action spreading the recoil out like a shock absorber.
It's an accurate thing, too. I have a Ransom Rest and used to shoot it from the rest at SVGC when it was still at Bloomington. At 50 yards, it could put a magazine under 2" most times, and a little better with what it liked.
What it doesn't like to do is to be shot a long time without cleaning. There are too many tight areas that need a coat of oil, and combined with the use of slow powders that can leave unburned granules behind in the oil, it would get sluggish after a few magazines and start choking. Usually, I could pull the barrel and barrel extension (upper receiver) wipe it down and re-lube, and be OK for a while longer. It's not something I could shoot boxes of ammo through without care, but it wasn't meant to be either.
I like them. They aren't guns you just buy ammo, load it up, and go shoot, but that's OK. They aren't normal handguns.
Cool to look at and Dirty Harry had one. I have seen plenty of them around. There was a guy at the Crown Point show that had several of them. I looked and said cool then moved on. Like others have said there are much better guns available that dont cost as much that you can rock and roll with hard core and not have to worry. I vote Ruger all day long.
Site Supporter
Staff online
-
d.kaufmanStill Here
Members online
- Bosshoss
- Creedmoor
- KMaC
- X ring
- TheGrumpyGuy
- Glocktard
- Andyccw
- woody131
- Meatstick
- Flingarrows
- FreeLand
- Gabriel
- Kdf101
- j4jenk
- Butch627
- cstoltie
- abeguzmanmarine
- Xterminator
- Cavman
- markiemark
- HHollow
- Emerson Dambiggins
- Mgderf
- bowhunter_1978
- bigdaddy1427
- mark40sw
- klausm
- MikeBB
- Shadow01
- Ozark1897
- x34822
- Eagle21
- Hawkeye7br
- Highstandard
- d.kaufman
- MadBomber
- crookcountygo
- luckydog465
- dung
- 04FXSTS
- EODFXSTI
- Super Bee
- Brandon
- acd1010
- 4sarge
- armalitesheepdog
- Dale Dan Tony
- hhi7410
- mgross28
- darkkevin
