.38spl non +P self defense

[Jaybird1980]

I remember reading the British colonial police in Asia used a 200gr bullet in their 38 S&W cartridge and they said it preformed well. It was around 550-600 fps from a 4" barrel.
It was in a old book I had that got lost in a move. I really miss that old book.
38 S&W has a diameter of .360-.362

I've tried to find a 200gr bullet in .357 or .358 and load data over the years. I just can't find that combination.

180 grainers shoot real good out of my 4"

 

[Steve]

You might do some research and check out Glazer Safety Slugs. Played with a few of them in the early 90's and they are a vicious little beast. Basically, they are #9 shot shell encased in teflon. Preformed very well in my S&W Model 15 .38 Special in ballistic gel tests. Went in as a .38 and existed with a 6" hole. They were called a "pathologist's nightmare" for a reason. After those tests, that was all I carried for years. IMHO, they are an excellent round for self defense.

 

[Leo]

I have an old snub nose that is not +P rated. I found some 125 grain hollow points made by Sellier and Bellot that shoot very well. I have not tested them on a piece of meat. I have heard that Hollow points do not reliably expand in a snub nose. My thinking is that at minimum they will still make the same diameter hole as a round nose, and maybe they will expand. I know the technology exists for low velocity hollowpoints and high velocity hollowpoints. I can always hope the engineers got it right.

Better than trying to defend myself with a sharpened pencil. In combat I would rather have my M14, but that really messes up the fit of my suit jacket.

 

[Jaybird1980]

You might do some research and check out Glazer Safety Slugs. Played with a few of them in the early 90's and they are a vicious little beast. Basically, they are #9 shot shell encased in teflon. Preformed very well in my S&W Model 15 .38 Special in ballistic gel tests. Went in as a .38 and existed with a 6" hole. They were called a "pathologist's nightmare" for a reason. After those tests, that was all I carried for years. IMHO, they are an excellent round for self defense.

The Glaser Safety Slugs have a bad reputation of under penetration. I'm talking less than 4 inches, sometimes never making it past the ribs with just a jacket covering.

I would not be comfortable with them as a defense round.

 

[Bigtanker]

You might do some research and check out Glazer Safety Slugs. Played with a few of them in the early 90's and they are a vicious little beast. Basically, they are #9 shot shell encased in teflon. Preformed very well in my S&W Model 15 .38 Special in ballistic gel tests. Went in as a .38 and existed with a 6" hole. They were called a "pathologist's nightmare" for a reason. After those tests, that was all I carried for years. IMHO, they are an excellent round for self defense.

From what I've seen online and heard experienced people that deal with stuff like this as a lifestyle, the Glaser's do not penetrate enough. It's even stated in their product description.

Made with #12 compressed shot, Glaser Blue Safety Slugs were designed for maximum stopping power. This ammunition produces immediate energy dispersal into the target with reduced penetration, penetrating 5" - 7" in lab testing.

5"-7" is really shallow and easily reduced by heavy clothing.

If you look into the history on this projectile, it was designed for Air Marshals in planes where they were very worried about putting a hole in the side of a plane.

 

[Mij]

From experience, as stated before, it takes quite a few lead rounds to cause problems. Just run a few jacketed rounds through it after. That will cut cleaning time in half. If you can find Critical Defense in standard pressure that would be great. Full 148 gr. lead wad cutters would hit like a hammer and not over penetrate. Dumping all their energy into the target. Added advantage would be their inherent accuracy. JMO.

 

[LtScott14]

Check out AmmoSeek.com, and see what you can find. I have had snubbies for years, Rossi, S&W, Colt,Taurus, just a few and have never shot one loose or stretched the frames from occasional +P.
Regular practice used lead or ball, cleaned gun, carried +P.(did shoot a few first).

Right now, most 38 spec ammo is scarce, find a decent round and try a few. I also have retained some older stock, kept dry and stored, that has always fired. Nyclads, JHPs, FMJ, but i prefer a 125gr-? JHP for a snubbie.(40 years of carrying revolvers, lately a G45, 9mm).
Good luck.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You might do some research and check out Glazer Safety Slugs. Played with a few of them in the early 90's and they are a vicious little beast. Basically, they are #9 shot shell encased in teflon. Preformed very well in my S&W Model 15 .38 Special in ballistic gel tests. Went in as a .38 and existed with a 6" hole. They were called a "pathologist's nightmare" for a reason. After those tests, that was all I carried for years. IMHO, they are an excellent round for self defense.

They were, and are, a terrible idea. #9 shot is not going out blow a 6" hole in a person any more than a 9mm will blow somebody's lungs out. They make messy but shallow injuries, will not reliably reach vital organs on medium sized dogs, let alone medium sized humans. They are, however, a reasonable cartridge if you need to shoot raccoons or opossums and don't want to deal with an exit wound and mess to clean up afterward. Vs humans, particularly the rather bulky humans that populate much of modern day America, any prefragmented handgun round is going to be relying heavily on a psychological stop. It should be relegated to the junk pile of history along with all the gimmick .410 loads for the Judge/Governor style revolvers.

If I could pick my opponent's load in a duel GSS would be high on my list, maybe just behind .22 short and just ahead of .25 Auto. It would probably be a decent suicide gun with a contact shot. You would not have to watch your angles as much as with a .25 Auto, which often results in the ol' bang and flop for a few hours if you get it wrong.

 

[Walking Bear]

There is no such thing as a magic bullet. Practice with what you and your gun can handle. I you can put all 5 rounds on a 6" paper plate you are good to go. When I was a deputy I saw a store clerk shot 4 times with a .357 and he was walking around talking. No major organ hit.

 

[russc2542]

I have an old snub nose that is not +P rated. I found some 125 grain hollow points made by Sellier and Bellot that shoot very well. I have not tested them on a piece of meat. I have heard that Hollow points do not reliably expand in a snub nose. My thinking is that at minimum they will still make the same diameter hole as a round nose, and maybe they will expand. I know the technology exists for low velocity hollowpoints and high velocity hollowpoints. I can always hope the engineers got it right.

Better than trying to defend myself with a sharpened pencil. In combat I would rather have my M14, but that really messes up the fit of my suit jacket.

The problem is not getting them to expand at low velocity but that the total kinetic energy isn't enough to penetrate when expanded... thing of it like pushing your hand through water with it bladed vs cupped. You can expand a low vel round just fine but because it's expanded the greater surface area slows it down faster so it doesn't reach vitals. The amount of energy in a non+p will give you one, not both. That's why most people suggest a .38spl+p or hotter round, there's enough energy to penetrate 12+" while expanded.

 

[DadSmith]

I was surprised by the Buffalo Bore ammunition in this video. I didn't think there was any ammunition out there in a 38 special 158gr bullet that would expand decently from a 2" barrel.

Might look into these. The penetration wasn't the best but I believe it was around 12" for the none +p load out of the 2" barrel.

 

[Amishman44]

Are these considered +P?

Hornady 38 Special 158 gr XTP​

Nope...they're considered 'standard' pressure...and I've carried these in various .38 Special revolvers over the years, including my older, early '90's nickel Taurus Model 85...it's so accurate in the 12' - 15' range that it's usually one 'bull's eye' shot at the range and then done for the day!
OP - If your Rossi is more accurate with a specific brand of ammunition, then by all means, use that.
Here's one of the 'one-n-done' (he he, it's actually a joke when we're all at the range) from a year ago.
Note...there's actually two (2) shots in this group...one slightly below the other. Shot in SA mode.

 

[Amishman44]

I was surprised by the Buffalo Bore ammunition in this video. I didn't think there was any ammunition out there in a 38 special 158gr bullet that would expand decently from a 2" barrel.

Might look into these. The penetration wasn't the best but I believe it was around 12" for the none +p load out of the 2" barrel.

Interesting video...he covered the difference between a standard pressure round and a +P round in both a 4" and 2" revolver...and the differences are very easy to see, first-hand.
I've carried a snub-nosed .38 special as an EDC for many years...and have always been comfortable with it as a self-defense caliber!
Many people are more hung up on the 'wonder-9's' but seem to forget that the 9mm hasn't necessarily made the 'oldies' obsolete!

 

[DadSmith]

Interesting video...he covered the difference between a standard pressure round and a +P round in both a 4" and 2" revolver...and the differences are very easy to see, first-hand.
I've carried a snub-nosed .38 special as an EDC for many years...and have always been comfortable with it as a self-defense caliber!
Many people are more hung up on the 'wonder-9's' but seem to forget that the 9mm hasn't necessarily made the 'oldies' obsolete!

The best round I've seen for the 38 special and a light load were the Federal match with the 148gr wadcutter. It did a great job in the video's I seen.

 

[Sniper 79]

Plenty of good 38spl out there. We whacked a few hogs down in FL off the swamp buggy with a 38spl. Bang flop dead head shots.

 

[snapping turtle]

first off shoot it at night no matter what ammo you use. They can be very much flame throwers with certain loads. Most people only shoot during the day or inside at I bright range.

second I don’t think you gain lots of performance for the price on plus p ammo in general. others will argue against it.

If your m88 is like the one pictured in the photo you uploaded and it say Interarms on it your fine to shoot plus P ammo in it. (Even if the manual says no plus p) standard 38 special made in the late 1970 launched 140-158 grain bullets at 1000:fps. Remington saber is 158 grain at 995 fps and is plus P. That was plus p loads at standard pressure packaging. I don’t think you will wear out that revolver in your grandchildren’s lifetime. I think lawyers got involved and ammo once normally loads for 38 special became plus p.

IF you want to be more cautious then load it with carry plus p and shoot some to make sure it works well in it the shoot standard velocity for practice. I think you might have a model 68 if you say it looks better than the firearm pictured.

I have owned the m68 and still own the 2 inch 357 model 66 copy. I have shot thousands of round ‘S through them. lots of them plus P. Still locks up tight and I have shot them a ton. No timing issues no gap or forcing cone problems. I doubt you going to shoot it as much as I have mine because I bought mine in 1991 ish. Ammo was cheaper and I reloaded and purchased a ton of it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

second I don’t think you gain lots of performance for the price on plus p ammo in general. others will argue against it.

Very very much cartridge dependent. Some have real performance advantages, some are just marketing. The problem is there isn't any easy rule of thumb to sort them out. A given manufacturer may have a real improvement in one cartridge and just a different SKU with no real difference in another. .38 Special, .45 Auto, and .45 Colt *tend* to have actual improvement but it far from universal.

 

[Ford Truck]

Here are some options for your consideration. It's pricey. https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=23

 

[Leadeye]

Another vote for 148 grain HBWC.

 

[DadSmith]

Another vote for 148 grain HBWC.

It's actually has pretty good penetration even at 650-700fps.
My parents are getting up there in years and I load them up some that to me feel like a 22lr.
Mom shoots it well so does dad. I'd rather see them put 5rds into a bad guy than miss because of recoil they can't handle anymore. Plus a 38 special is much more reliable than 22lr ammunition. I load them up in nickel plated brass for corrosion resistance. I do their cleaning and lube every six months or as needed.

Have you ever loaded 38 Special with black powder or a substitute?