2009 Toyota Corolla No Crank Won't Start issue

[foszoe]

Okay, just saw your response to Jaybird. If the relay is clicking it is probably not antitheft. Check the circuit between the relay and the starter solenoid. There should be 12 volts at the starter solenoid terminal when the key is in the crank position. Less than 12 volts indicates resistance between the relay and the starter or high resistance in the relay. 12 volts present at the starter terminal indicates a problem with the starter/solenoid. Good luck

I believe by jumpering the relay switch and starting the car, I tested the circuit between the relay and the solenoid. Yesterday when I had no voltage at the solenoid is what lead me back to the relay. I could check the voltage again to ensure the voltage from the ignition switch to the relay is 12V. I used a multimeter to test all voltages yesterday except the signal voltage from the ignition switch to the relay, where I just used a test light. Maybe I will see a voltage drop from the ignition switch to the relay which would make the remote starting wiring even more likely. The relay has a coil resistance of 110 Ohm. if the voltage is too low to overcome it, I think I have narrowed it down sufficiently. The relay tested fine when I bench tested with a 12V signal and it clicked audibly. It subjectively sounds weaker when in the car. If I check the signal voltage to the relay I should be assured the relay is closing properly.

I am at the limit of my diagnostic skills now though

 

[foszoe]

I have no real experience with remote start and how it managed the immobilizer or where it might drop one of the criteria for firing the starter relay.

Could just jiggle the wires and try to start it until you get lucky and notice what part of the harness correlates to not working. The immobilizer is an open question, it may be withholding signal somewhere.

That was going to be the next thing up on the agenda. I would think the immobilizer would stop the signal voltage from reaching the starter relay somehow. Maybe I need to see if I can find a wiring diagram.

 

[bobzilla]

That was going to be the next thing up on the agenda. I would think the immobilizer would stop the signal voltage from reaching the starter relay somehow. Maybe I need to see if I can find a wiring diagram.

With the honda immobilizer the car would crank and catch then die, similar to some of the older GM setups. Not sure if the Toyota is similar or not.

I've seen so many non factory remote starts cause so many problems its not funny. They are all junk imo.

 

[Ark]

That was going to be the next thing up on the agenda. I would think the immobilizer would stop the signal voltage from reaching the starter relay somehow. Maybe I need to see if I can find a wiring diagram.

Yeah you gotta do some research and figure out the whole operating principle. Figure out what it needs to see and when to satisfy the start condition. Some of them, if they get angry enough at you, will eventually lock you out without a scan tool reset.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Actually I used it to verify I had found the right wire with my test light that sends the signal from the ignition switch when turned to start, which to me, means the ignition set up should be fine.

So kinda lost now.

1st circuit. Battery to Starter is fine and battery to switch in relay to starter is fine because I can jumper the relay switch sockets and start the car.

2nd circuit. Battery - Ignition Switch is fine because in the start position I get a 12V source from the Ignition Switch. This should go to the Neutral Safety Switch then to the relay which tests fine because there is continuity across the switch when 12V power is applied.
. Well, Relay socket is fine NOW because I can hear the relay clicking AFTER I dropped the ignition switch cover (didn't hear it clicking before) AND the coil side has a V source (test light) and ground. I guess I could check the V source with a Multimeter.

But also running out of time as she wants the car drivable ASAP

Maybe i should buy a code reader

Are you saying you used a scotch lock as a connection point for the test light?

If it was me I would remove the remote start wire, take it out of the equation. If that fixes your problem then hook it back in correctly. If problem returns remove remote start completely.

Aftermarket remote starts are a pain. It's usually wiring issues from installer or the components fail after a few years of bouncing around under the dash.

 

[foszoe]

Are you saying you used a scotch lock as a connection point for the test light?

If it was me I would remove the remote start wire, take it out of the equation. If that fixes your problem then hook it back in correctly. If problem returns remove remote start completely.

Aftermarket remote starts are a pain. It's usually wiring issues from installer or the components fail after a few years of bouncing around under the dash.

Its actually a factory remote start from Toyota that was installed at the dealer after purchase. Taking a break but have got the connectors off the neutral position switch so I can check continuity from the ignition switch to the NPS and from the NPS to the relay

Yes I found a wiring diagram

 

[printcraft]

Its actually a factory remote start from Toyota that was installed at the dealer after purchase. Taking a break but have got the connectors off the neutral position switch so I can check continuity from the ignition switch to the NPS and from the NPS to the relay

Yes I found a wiring diagram

Wait, a "factory" remote start had crimp/splice connectors and NOT a plug in connection?

 

[foszoe]

Wait, a "factory" remote start had crimp/splice connectors and NOT a plug in connection?

Well that could be. Maybe I should say its a Toyota VIP Remote start that matches what Toyota shows in their promotional videos for the model we have. That doesn't mean that it wasn't spliced in because the car was not originally set up with it from the factory.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Its actually a factory remote start from Toyota that was installed at the dealer after purchase. Taking a break but have got the connectors off the neutral position switch so I can check continuity from the ignition switch to the NPS and from the NPS to the relay

Yes I found a wiring diagram

If it has scotch lock style splices take them off and do them right. They're garbage.

 

[bobzilla]

Well that could be. Maybe I should say its a Toyota VIP Remote start that matches what Toyota shows in their promotional videos for the model we have. That doesn't mean that it wasn't spliced in because the car was not originally set up with it from the factory.

That setup was set up to be a plug and play. Unplug the ignition switch, install the T harness that plugs the harness and the module together. There should not be ANY splicing with that system.

 

[foszoe]

Narrowing it down further. Jumping the signal voltage from the ignition switch to the relay, bypassing the neutral switch and the car started when the key was turned.

I also have continuity from the ignition switch to the neutral switch. So now I think it's either the Neutral Switch or the wire from the Neutral Switch to the Relay panel which runs behind the glove box where......I found evidence of a mouse

 

[Ark]

Narrowing it down further. Jumping the signal voltage from the ignition switch to the relay, bypassing the neutral switch and the car started when the key was turned.

I also have continuity from the ignition switch to the neutral switch. So now I think it's either the Neutral Switch or the wire from the Neutral Switch to the Relay panel which runs behind the glove box where......I found evidence of a mouse

Continuity check on the switch itself? It's only open/closed. Then continuity from the connector up to the relay panel. Cross those wire segments on the diagram off one at a time, that's how you do it!

Great news, if you jumped it and it started then you ruled out immobilizer and remote start.

 

[BugI02]

We did have it done at the Toyota dealer in the hopes it would be done right and it was several years ago so its worked but wife and I were talking and there were some times as recently as last week where it didn't start on the first try with remote start. We had the dog in the car and it shuts down every 10 min so I kept restarting it to keep the a/c on for him and it didn't work a couple of times. Finally I got in and started it and left the key in it.

The splices are all wrapped in foam and I am not wanting to rip into all of that.

The only other component I haven't really tested is the neutral safety switch or transmission position sensor whatever its called these days

fos, don't know if it would be germane to a 2009 Toyo (I'll bet it would be) but we had a starting problem with a 2016 automatic that was actually related to the brake light switch. The computer was using that switch being closed as an indicator of foot on the brake, which was required to start the vehicle

 

[foszoe]

Continuity check on the switch itself? It's only open/closed. Then continuity from the connector up to the relay panel. Cross those wire segments on the diagram off one at a time, that's how you do it!

Great news, if you jumped it and it started then you ruled out immobilizer and remote start.

Finally got two alligator clamps on the two prongs out of the switch....i think....I can hardly see down there...hardly get a hand down there and now the sun is in the worst spot for my eyes to see along with all the metal just waiting to scald me as I lay across it.....car is in park.....no continuity across the prongs.

 

[Ark]

Finally got two alligator clamps on the two prongs out of the switch....i think....I can hardly see down there...hardly get a hand down there and now the sun is in the worst spot for my eyes to see along with all the metal just waiting to scald me as I lay across it.....car is in park.....no continuity across the prongs.

Does it change when moved between gears? Dunno if the park condition is open or closed circuit. If power for the relay goes through the switch, presumably closed is the start condition. Jump the connector at the switch and try to start.

Neutral switches do fail. Not often, but they do.

 

[foszoe]

Does it change when moved between gears? Dunno if the park condition is open or closed circuit. If power for the relay goes through the switch, presumably closed is the start condition. Jump the connector at the switch and try to start.

Neutral switches do fail. Not often, but they do.

Jumped the switch and gear led display showed R for every position.....I wish I would have checked that before to make sure it was changing. Used to just looking at gear selector switch...

It didn't start when jumped though.

 

[foszoe]

Does it change when moved between gears? Dunno if the park condition is open or closed circuit. If power for the relay goes through the switch, presumably closed is the start condition. Jump the connector at the switch and try to start.

Neutral switches do fail. Not often, but they do.

i read where the bolts are made to adjust them so thats a possibility but after 2 days without her car, her patience is wearing a bit thin. The perplexing thing to me is the circuit is supposed to go Ignition switch - White - Neutral Position Switch - Light Green - Relay, but when I tested continuity I only found it from white at the Ignition switch to Light Green at the NPS not to the white wire when the ignition was turned to start.

 

[Ark]

It should be sending 12v to terminal 4 on the neutral switch connector when the key is turned to start. Then 12v out of the switch and down the green wire to energize the relay. Pretty simple.

 

[foszoe]

It should be sending 12v to terminal 4 on the neutral switch connector when the key is turned to start. Then 12v out of the switch and down the green wire to energize the relay. Pretty simple.

Yeah sorry for confusion. I was getting tired I took lots of notes and misread them when I sat down. Pin 4 getting 12V. Confirmed continuity from switch to relay.

Replacing Switch today after it comes in at Parts Store.

 

[printcraft]

I H A T E electrical trouble shooting. Just wanted to add that.