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Accurate AR ammo
- Thread starter gregr
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I'm certain this well get me blasted by the smarter people then I, but, you want to improve your rifles groups, A) install a great trigger, B) learn proper marksmanship C) practice
I picked up my first 2 CMP medals using a 16 inch PSA with a crappy trigger & factory 55 grain ammo.....
I picked up my first 2 CMP medals using a 16 inch PSA with a crappy trigger & factory 55 grain ammo.....
By the way hand landing a 69 grainer for short work like under 300 yards, & 77 grain for 600 ....problem is most AR type rifles are not throated deap enough for 80 & heavier
I would email the manufacturer. Lots of time they will forward to the guys that do the testing and give you some suggestions. I have Proof and JP barrels. Messaged both and got quick, similar responses. I use Federal Gold Match, either the 69 or 77 grain Sierra Match King. Both shoot great.
A lot of good advice, and heavier bullets are part of the solution. Do not discount bullet quality. Most low price or "mil spec" 55 gr FMJ ammo is not for minute of angle target work, it is like combat ammo, Minute of man. If it hits somewhere it is good.
For 100 yard reduced matches I loaded some Sierra 52 gr Match kings over a compressed charge of Varget. I shot it from a 7.7 twist barrel, iron sighted rifle. On the 600 yard sim prone target, I scored a 100 with 8X on the first target and a 10X on the second. (kind of surprised me) The X on that 600 sim target is dime sized. That same rifle made about 2 inch groups with 55 gr FMJ ball ammo.
I have never ran into an AR that would not shoot quality 69 grain match ammo with really good precision. I do like 77 gr better at 500 & 600 yards, but at 200-300 the 69 is great.
Have fun with your new rifle!
For 100 yard reduced matches I loaded some Sierra 52 gr Match kings over a compressed charge of Varget. I shot it from a 7.7 twist barrel, iron sighted rifle. On the 600 yard sim prone target, I scored a 100 with 8X on the first target and a 10X on the second. (kind of surprised me) The X on that 600 sim target is dime sized. That same rifle made about 2 inch groups with 55 gr FMJ ball ammo.
I have never ran into an AR that would not shoot quality 69 grain match ammo with really good precision. I do like 77 gr better at 500 & 600 yards, but at 200-300 the 69 is great.
Have fun with your new rifle!
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You should not be seeing abysmal accuracy with a quality rifle at 50 yards, almost regardless of ammo type, unless something is seriously seriously wrong with the barrel. I've seen tight groups out of a keyholing barrel at 50 yards.
I have yet to shoot an AR15 that won't produce at least 2" or better at 100 yards with any milspec ammo. Of course you need to eliminate the shooter as a variable if you want a valid test of the gear.
I would not waste money shooting 77gr if you're only shooting 50-200 yards, save that for when you're trying to stretch the range. 55gr should be producing the best groups at that short of distance.
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When comparing groups you should use the same number of rounds fired, otherwise you're giving yourself a false impression of the performance.
Multiple 3 round groups are good for testing ammo, 10 round groups are good for testing guns.
This is the reason I have asked for advice. I`m sure I`m not the only one, but I cannot afford to buy up a bunch of different bullet weight and different brands to try. I was hoping to get advice based on others experience and greatly lessen the cost to figure out a round to shoot that would be most accurate.
Every firearm is different, what is accurate in one may not be in the next due to variations in machining. I don't know of any shortcuts to testing in a particular rifle.
A typical day at the range for me. A stock Colt AR @ 100yds with its gritty stock trigger and Vortex PST II 1-4x35 zero'd at 100yds at the bench with a bipod. These shots weren't even taken very seriously, I was just plinking without much concentration.
I'm sure I could improve this with a better trigger and swapping out the stock furniture for a free float forearm (future plan). First target 10 shots of 55gr PMC Bronze. 2nd target PMC Bronze 59gr and 3rd target PMC X-Tac XM855 5.56 62gr 5 shots each. I'm a lefty so tend to go high right.
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You Soldiers have it easy peasy at 300
What's the purpose for this rifle? Is it your only AR? As stated above, every barrel is different. You can take 2 Springfield Saint barrels of the same specs and one will shoot a particular ammo better than the other. It's just how it is. Post a pics of groups at 50yd-100yds so we can see what your definition of abysmal is. More than likely the 55gr will work just fine for training and drill work. If you find a load that shoot considerably better with consistency then buy a case of it. And stick to 55gr stuff for range fodder
Fiocchi 50gr V max type varmint ammo, 1 in 8 Anderson bbl.
3 shots at an inch (100 yds).
Normally run 55 gr V max stuff as .223 for me is just chuck/yote popper.
Surprised by the 50gr stuff doing decent.
Used to run Blackhills 55gr stuff (think Hornady SP) in a 1 in 9 and it killed a few chucks.
Double checked, Fiocchi 50 gr, w red plastic tip.
3 shots at an inch (100 yds).
Normally run 55 gr V max stuff as .223 for me is just chuck/yote popper.
Surprised by the 50gr stuff doing decent.
Used to run Blackhills 55gr stuff (think Hornady SP) in a 1 in 9 and it killed a few chucks.
Double checked, Fiocchi 50 gr, w red plastic tip.
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Gunmetalgray
Sharpshooter
Wait, is the scope new or just recently mounted? Maybe it's loose or not holding zero?? As someone mentioned even mil 55grn shouldn't be abysmal, not at 50 yds.
Was bench rest/bag being used? 50 yds should be no problem for any AR/ammo combo, even standing... 25 MPH wind... after 2 cups of coffee... and a bad hip
lol
Was bench rest/bag being used? 50 yds should be no problem for any AR/ammo combo, even standing... 25 MPH wind... after 2 cups of coffee... and a bad hip
lol
1:7 twist barrel
From my personal experience, the winchester ammo always shoots poorly for accuracy. I had better luck with PPU and AAC for cheap AR ammo. I was getting 3-4" groups at 200 yards whereas the winchester was like 10" lol. I tried a box of Hornady black 75gr as well which was doing 5-6" groups. Haven't gotten around to any hand loads yet, but I'm pretty sure I can get some acceptable groups that beat out the rest that way.
Best thing you can do is just keep an eye out for sales and pick up different brands to try out if you don't wanna develop your own load. Palmetto has decent prices and so does targetsports.
From my personal experience, the winchester ammo always shoots poorly for accuracy. I had better luck with PPU and AAC for cheap AR ammo. I was getting 3-4" groups at 200 yards whereas the winchester was like 10" lol. I tried a box of Hornady black 75gr as well which was doing 5-6" groups. Haven't gotten around to any hand loads yet, but I'm pretty sure I can get some acceptable groups that beat out the rest that way.
Best thing you can do is just keep an eye out for sales and pick up different brands to try out if you don't wanna develop your own load. Palmetto has decent prices and so does targetsports.
I've heard V-Max rounds are pretty precise. The way I've had it explained to me, the ballistic tip acts in a similar way of how a hollow point works, where the weight is almost entirely in the base of the bullet. This is preferrable rather than having some weight in the tip which can cause instabilities during flight. It also has slightly better aerodynamics than a hollow point with its complete spitzer shape, however the heavier grain HP will make up with their heavier weight and increased BCs.
Also, from a logic point of view, I feel 1:7 twist would be overrated, as it seems that 1:8 would be in a sort of "Goldilocks" zone of being able to handle the more common 55gr and 62gr, as well as handle the 69gr and 75gr. Except for precision shooters loading single rounds or using bolt actions, who actually shoots 80gr? I personally don't know of anyone who has bragged about 1:7 and used anything higher than a 62gr.
I also will admit I haven't had a lot of trigger time behind a 1:7 compared to 1:8 and 1:9.
I also will admit I haven't had a lot of trigger time behind a 1:7 compared to 1:8 and 1:9.
Kirk Freeman
Grandmaster
I am grooving the Gorilla 69gr. with the SMK projectile. Shoots way better than I do.
For 55s I like Norma (usually shoot Colts with 1:7 but have other looser spins that like it fine)
For 55s I like Norma (usually shoot Colts with 1:7 but have other looser spins that like it fine)
So you've never been to a High Power Match then?
Other than SS109 steel core that has a longer bearing surface than lead core 62 grainers about all we shoot in 223 are 69 and 77 grainers.
All of our modern AR's are 1-7 twist.
I've never been to one, however one day I would like to maybe get into more precision 223 shooting. Also keep in mind I unfortunately don't know too many people who take precision seriously. Some of them actually replaced their barrel for a 1:7 over their stock 1:8 and 1:9 even though they never shoot anything above 55gr or 62gr M855.
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