Hamas Launches Infiltration, Rocket Attack on Israel

IDF Chief of Staff Herzi Halevi issued an apology after midnight on Wednesday for a deadly Israeli strike on an aid convoy in Gaza, adding that it was a result of a “misidentification,” which was being investigated and learned from.

phylodog said:

Their motive? They set out to murder Americans all of a sudden? To gain what?

I don't have a dog in the fight I just don't see the logic.

Click to expand...

Anger at aid workers, aiding what they see as their enemy.

Tombs said:

...what they see as their enemy.

Click to expand...

What in the world ever gave them that idea?

Route 45 said:

What in the world ever gave them that idea?

Click to expand...

Careful, that's treading dangerously close to being anti-Semitic.

Tombs said:

Anger at aid workers, aiding what they see as their enemy.

Click to expand...

Israel has given Gaza Palestinians millions in aid themselves over the last 6 months. Why would they be angry at people helping? That takes financial burden off them. Plus they don't have to deal with the people the aid workers were taking care of.
They have aid backed up sitting in Gaza for the UN and others to pick up and distribute all from Israel.


As I posted earlier we have killed our share of innocent aid workers.

Don't worry the Democrat's hear you and will use whatever excuse to pull aid from Israel and send it to Ukraine. Ukraine gives a kick back.

DadSmith said:

Israel has given Gaza Palestinians millions in aid themselves over the last 6 months. Why would they be angry at people helping? That takes financial burden off them. Plus they don't have to deal with the people the aid workers were taking care of.
They have aid backed up sitting in Gaza for the UN and others to pick up and distribute all from Israel.


As I posted earlier we have killed our share of innocent aid workers.

Don't worry the Democrat's hear you and will use whatever excuse to pull aid from Israel and send it to Ukraine. Ukraine gives a kick back.

Click to expand...

The thought never even crossed your mind that with all this friendly fire and killing of aid workers, maybe things aren't being conducted in a reasonable manner? Sure we have killed a lot of people, that's what happens over 20 ****ing years of non-stop war. This is just a matter of months, in the nation's own back yard.

They had the moral justification to turn Gaza into a parking lot on october 8th, and instead they insisted that they cared about civilian lives, yet can't manage their forces well enough to avoid constant friendly fire incidents. And we're supposed to believe they are going to do an effective job of protecting civilians with this loose of an operation?

I see this as yet another forever war, currying justification for endless aid, and burning almost every bridge the west has for diplomatic missions outside of our sphere. Almost half the democratic party senators have dual citizenship to Israel, so your comment seems laughable.

Tombs said:

Almost half the democratic party senators have dual citizenship to Israel, so your comment seems laughable.

Click to expand...

Well see soon enough if the Democrat's pull aid.
Don't forget many Jews in the US hate Israel I'm sure many of them sit in government roles.
Biden said he was if Bibi didn't force a ceasefire Blinken backed that statement up not long after Bidens call to Netanyahu.
So if Netanyahu ignores this warning which I think he'll do. Because Hamas has refused every single ceasefire or violated them to cause the war to continue.
Hamas wins if they can get US to stop sending aid to Israel. Even if Israel destroys them they served their purpose.
The aid we don't send to Israel goes to Ukraine who isn't in alliance with us. However, they do send the big guy a cut of American taxpayers money back to him.

Edit:
The only chance our abducted Americans have is if Israel finishes off Hamas.
Since we are doing nothing to save them.
We should support Israel until every abducted American is accounted for.

Tombs said:

Not really, if he was actually standing for this country and our people, he'd say no more aid after killing an American needlessly.

Click to expand...

It’s a war zone. **** happens. The only mistake is Israel making any kind of promise to the safety of aid workers. Make it clear that any civilian inside the fence at gaza does so at their own risk.

Probably a good time for everybody to take a breath here. Bring it down to a simmer from the rolling boil.

While I'm here I have a few thoughts. Misidentifying targets is nothing new. Historically it's "blue on blue" and it's Military in a war zone who die. In 1994 USAF F-15s shot down to US Army Blackhawks. Early in OIF a Navy Air Liaison Officer (ALO) called in A-10s on a Marine unit... twice!! An Afghan pilot called in an AC-130 on Doctors without Borders in A-Stan. That was without researching/off the top of my head.

It's hard enough to keep up with all the Military folks in a war zone. Hell we found out that NATO had a presence in Iraq when an aircraft maintenance NCO showed up at BIAP (Baghdad International Airport, large presence there in 2005) and the PERSCO (Personnel Supporting Contingency Operations) Team Chief called me and asked why he was here. And I was at the flippin CENTCOM Forward Air Forces Headquarters!! (Possible Military BS thread post coming on this one.)

Remotely piloted aircraft (not drones) have been armed for decades. Identifying targets doesn't get easier when fewer lives and less expensive aircraft are at risk.

Non-combatants zooming around a war zone in convoys... anybody else see a problem here?

I'll close with this: there is a big difference between a music festival and a known war zone.

KellyinAvon said:

Probably a good time for everybody to take a breath here. Bring it down to a simmer from the rolling boil.

While I'm here I have a few thoughts. Misidentifying targets is nothing new. Historically it's "blue on blue" and it's Military in a war zone who die. In 1994 USAF F-15s shot down to US Army Blackhawks. Early in OIF a Navy Air Liaison Officer (ALO) called in A-10s on a Marine unit... twice!! An Afghan pilot called in an AC-130 on Doctors without Borders in A-Stan. That was without researching/off the top of my head.

It's hard enough to keep up with all the Military folks in a war zone. Hell we found out that NATO had a presence in Iraq when an aircraft maintenance NCO showed up at BIAP (Baghdad International Airport, large presence there in 2005) and the PERSCO (Personnel Supporting Contingency Operations) Team Chief called me and asked why he was here. And I was at the flippin CENTCOM Forward Air Forces Headquarters!! (Possible Military BS thread post coming on this one.)

Remotely piloted aircraft (not drones) have been armed for decades. Identifying targets doesn't get easier when fewer lives and less expensive aircraft are at risk.

Non-combatants zooming around a war zone in convoys... anybody else see a problem here?

I'll close with this: there is a big difference between a music festival and a known war zone.

Click to expand...

Like the USS Liberty?

One of the great things about strikes like the one in Syria is the damage the Iranians will do to themselves trying to figure out where the leaks are. Totalitarian regimes often torture and kill people who have had nothing to do with the leak and different factions use these events to settle scores or promote themselves. The net result is a weaker organization.

Tombs said:

The thought never even crossed your mind that with all this friendly fire and killing of aid workers, maybe things aren't being conducted in a reasonable manner?

Click to expand...

I believe the expectation of a "reasonable" response to what occurred in October is the epitome of hypocrisy. We sat here comfortably while the savages were mercilessly murdering women and children for the sole purpose of exterminating an entire race but we can sit back, judge the response and attempt to put restrictions on those who lost their loved ones. All from the cheap seats on the other side of the globe.

**** a reasonable response.

Tombs said:

So I guess if Israel kills Americans, Brits, and Australians in a no-combat zone, in clearly marked vehicles coordinating with the IDF for IFF, nobody in this country cares?

But if Hamas has some American hostages, we're supposed to support going in?

Can someone explain this mindset to me because this is completely baffling?

Click to expand...

Let me say this first: I care. This was a tragedy, and I believe that somebody should be held responsible. Somebody in the IDF screwed up, and they shouldn't be allowed to hide behind a blanket statement like "stuff happens." A lot of people will take issue with me just for saying that, because they can't get past a dualistic thinking that requires them to unequivocally justify every single thing Isreal does, no matter what.

That being said, your apparent conclusion that this unfortunate event means that we should stop supporting Israel in wiping out Hamas is what's baffling to me. You do realize, right, that this is a war? These people were volunteers giving humanitarian assistance in a war zone. How in the world do you think Israel going wishy-washy and deciding to pull out and let Hamas live to fight another day is going to help anything?

People have to realize that you can only do so much in war. Yes, I believe, as I said above, that you should find out who screwed up, and they should received a punishment that is in proportion to the mistake they made. But unless/until any evidence emerges that this action was somehow deliberately planned or sanctioned by Israel leadership (spoiler alert: it wasn't) saying that it should change our stance on the war against Hamas is, quite frankly, ludicrous. No matter how good a job you do, mistakes will happen in war. And no matter how dangerous the warzone, you will have volunteers like these people who risk their lives going in to help people.

Letting Hamas live to fight another day will just mean more and longer wars down the road. And as long as humans remain humans, there will always be some folks who are brave/selfless (or, you could argue, foolish, if you take that point of view) enough to risk their lives going in and giving aid in an active war zone. And there will always be, especially in a war like this one, soldiers who get trigger-happy and make a mistake. And so the only possible way to avoid tragedies like this completely, is to end the war completely, and make sure another one just like it doesn't start up next week.

How long were we in Azzcrackistan defeating the Taliban before the current administration decided to re-arm and re-equip our enemy. We are still in Iraq. 9-11 prodded us to war. October 7th gives them the right to do as they see fit as well. IMHO

Looking at this from a completely personal viewpoint, I think Biden needs to tread very carefully here in what power he attempts to exude over Israel. The United States is no longer in a position to manage the world's affairs financially nor militarily and everyone paying attention knows it. If Biden tries to pressure Israel too much there is a decent chance Israel tells Biden publicly the **** off. The problem with that is the entire playground is watching and everyone is going to know the bully no longer has balls.

phylodog said:

Looking at this from a completely personal viewpoint, I think Biden needs to tread very carefully here in what power he attempts to exude over Israel. The United States is no longer in a position to manage the world's affairs financially nor militarily and everyone paying attention knows it. If Biden tries to pressure Israel too much there is a decent chance Israel tells Biden publicly the **** off. The problem with that is the entire playground is watching and everyone is going to know the bully no longer has balls.

Click to expand...

I believe that the world is already fully aware of that fact.

rhamersley said:

I believe that the world is already fully aware of that fact.

Click to expand...

And waiting for a confirmation like my scenario would provide and we'd be done.

McDonalds bought out all the franchises in Israel from the local owners, seems they were offering discounted food to cops and the IDF since the hamas attack and this has caused boycott protests.

Those guys at the top of hamas must be laughing all the way to the local investment bank franchise in Quatar. This will go on and on and on, generating endless piles of cash to be invested with brokerage firms and merchant banks around the world.