Opinions on the Taurus 856 for daily carry?

IN New Guy · Feb 25, 2024

Be careful. Shoot your 856 a bunch to assure yourself of its reliability. Mine failed at round number 266 - cylinder would unlock but not rotate in either SA or DA. Sent in back to Taurus twice - the second time with a video they didn't want to watch until I got them on the phone and said "WATCH THE VIDEO" quite emphatically. Their response was I was pulling the trigger too slowly!! Incredible!! They sent the gun back with a letter saying it was within factory specs. It was not fixed. I ended up paying a competent local gunsmith to repair it properly. So far, after another 500 rounds, it has worked okay. I'm keeping my fingers crossed but I can't bring myself to trust it enough to carry it.

DadSmith · Feb 26, 2024

IN New Guy said:
Be careful. Shoot your 856 a bunch to assure yourself of its reliability. Mine failed at round number 266 - cylinder would unlock but not rotate in either SA or DA. Sent in back to Taurus twice - the second time with a video they didn't want to watch until I got them on the phone and said "WATCH THE VIDEO" quite emphatically. Their response was I was pulling the trigger too slowly!! Incredible!! They sent the gun back with a letter saying it was within factory specs. It was not fixed. I ended up paying a competent local gunsmith to repair it properly. So far, after another 500 rounds, it has worked okay. I'm keeping my fingers crossed but I can't bring myself to trust it enough to carry it.

I see a guntuber have similar issues when he pulled the trigger real slow it wouldn't turn the cylinder. However, if he pulled the trigger faster it worked every time.
Think I'd go with a 4" model 44, or 66 over the 856.

Bassat · Feb 26, 2024

Just a comment on pulling the trigger fast(er) versus slow(er). I've been carrying a Keltec P32 for 20+ years. I recently added a Kahr CM9, and a few weeks ago, a Charter Arms Off Duty. While I don't think pulling the trigger slowly should decrease reliability in any firearm, squeezing it quickly can/does improve my accuracy. If I try to slowly pull a DA/DAO trigger, looking for specific spots/feels in the action, I am way less accurate; it just takes too long. I believe one, relatively quick pull all the way to discharge is the proper way to pull said trigger. If you have decided that you intend to shoot, you gain nothing by delaying the discharge with a slow/staging trigger pull. You could lose a lot, even everything. Of note to the unconvinced: try it. I have no trouble keeping the front sight on target, and inside the rear sight while squeezing the trigger quickly. That is just not the case when I try to 'stage' the trigger in any of these guns.
I am considering adding another revolver to the mix. I like the 4" 65, but would likely never carry it. Also the 3" 856, or 3" 605. Still debating. I can't afford S&W.

92FSTech · Feb 26, 2024

I agree that "staging" a DA trigger on a revolver is not the best way to shoot it, but the gun should not go out of time just because the shooter is doing this (provided he's truly continuously pulling the trigger to the rear slowly and not short-stroking).

The hand should be engaging the ratchet and advancing it until the cylinder stop is seated in the notch in the cylinder, period. If it's relying on inertia to complete any portion of that travel, it's out of spec (at least, the spec for a quality revolver). Taurus support blaming this on the shooter's technique is a cop-out, and completely unacceptable. This is very similar to the problems I had with my 605 and 44. When I sent my 605 in to Taurus, they "fixed" it and returned it with the same problem. Cost me $70 to ship it, and an hour drive to the FedEx office at South Bend Airport to go pick it up because they never notified me it was coming back and sent it signature required during the work week so nobody was home. That $250 gun quickly became a $350 gun, and it still didn't work right.

This happened a few years back when you could buy a NIB J-Frame for $420, so I dumped the Taurus (with full disclosure, at a loss) and did that. I still have that little 360J, and amazingly it never fails to lock up properly. Same shooter, same technique...the only variable is the equipment.

DadSmith · Feb 26, 2024

92FSTech said:
I agree that "staging" a DA trigger on a revolver is not the best way to shoot it, but the gun should not go out of time just because the shooter is doing this (provided he's truly continuously pulling the trigger to the rear slowly and not short-stroking).

The hand should be engaging the ratchet and advancing it until the cylinder stop is seated in the notch in the cylinder, period. If it's relying on inertia to complete any portion of that travel, it's out of spec (at least, the spec for a quality revolver). Taurus support blaming this on the shooter's technique is a cop-out, and completely unacceptable. This is very similar to the problems I had with my 605 and 44. When I sent my 605 in to Taurus, they "fixed" it and returned it with the same problem. Cost me $70 to ship it, and an hour drive to the FedEx office at South Bend Airport to go pick it up because they never notified me it was coming back and sent it signature required during the work week so nobody was home. That $250 gun quickly became a $350 gun, and it still didn't work right.

This happened a few years back when you could buy a NIB J-Frame for $420, so I dumped the Taurus (with full disclosure, at a loss) and did that. I still have that little 360J, and amazingly it never fails to lock up properly. Same shooter, same technique...the only variable is the equipment.

Their model 85 doesn't have the same trigger as the 856. They changed with the 856. They should have left it like it was.

92FSTech · Feb 26, 2024

DadSmith said:
Their model 85 doesn't have the same trigger as the 856. They changed with the 856. They should have left it like it was.

I'm not familiar with the specifics of the 856 beyond the idea that it's basically a 6-shot version of the 85. I imagine that entails a slightly larger-in-diameter cylinder (maybe necessitating a slightly larger frame or frame opening?), a different ratchet, and maybe some dimensional changes to the hand. What did they change with the trigger?

Regardless, the concept of it's operation remains the same...trigger moves the hand, which engages the ratchet and advances the cylinder until the cylinder stop is locked into the next notch.

DadSmith · Feb 26, 2024

92FSTech said:
I'm not familiar with the specifics of the 856 beyond the idea that it's basically a 6-shot version of the 85. I imagine that entails a slightly larger-in-diameter cylinder (maybe necessitating a slightly larger frame or frame opening?), a different ratchet, and maybe some dimensional changes to the hand. What did they change with the trigger?

Regardless, the concept of it's operation remains the same...trigger moves the hand, which engages the ratchet and advances the cylinder until the cylinder stop is locked into the next notch.

You can stage a model 85 and according to where I've seen and read you cannot do so with 856.
My mother has a model 85 and you can slowly pull that back until it fires. The 856 won't. After so far it just stops and the cylinder IIRC rotates backwards. I maybe off on what it does. I'll try to find a video on it

DadSmith · Feb 26, 2024

@92FSTech

I think he found out later about having to pull the trigger faster I think it was.

DadSmith · Feb 26, 2024

This video is after he finally figured out the Taurus 856 trigger.

92FSTech · Feb 26, 2024

The gun in that video has a defective action with poor carry up. The hand and ratchet engagement isn't positively advancing the cylinder to the point of locking up with the cylinder stop. When he runs the trigger fast, inertia gets it there, but you can't depend on that.

Like he pointed out, just the weight of a couple of rounds on one side of the cylinder is enough to keep it from advancing. What if you had a burr on a piece of brass, dirt, or a slightly high primer causing a tiny amount of drag? The cylinder would never make it into battery. Yes, a high primer will lock up any revolver, but what we're seeing here isn't that...the trigger pulls through and the hand isn't even pushing the cylinder.

I wouldn't carry such a gun, or even shoot it. It's unsafe. Most of the time, it's not going to advance enough for the primer to align with the firing pin, so you'll just get a click (no bueno, but it's not going to hurt you). But what about the time that it lands just right so that the primer is aligned enough to detonate, but the chamber is far enough out of alignment with the barrel that it's driving the bullet into the rim of the forcing cone? I'm not sure exactly what the outcome would be (maybe shaved lead, maybe bulged chamber or cracked frame, or maybe instant hand grenade?), but I definitely wouldn't want to be the one holding it when it decides to test it!

I highly doubt that the 856 as designed is supposed to work like that...at least I certainly hope it's not. What we're seeing is more likely crummy initial QC from the factory, and incompetent maintenance by the warranty department.

Here's an article discussing timing and carryup that describes how it's supposed to work:

https://americanhandgunner.com/discover/timing-is-everything/

DadSmith · Feb 26, 2024

92FSTech said:
The gun in that video has a defective action with poor carry up. The hand and ratchet engagement isn't positively advancing the cylinder to the point of locking up with the cylinder stop. When he runs the trigger fast, inertia gets it there, but you can't depend on that.

Like he pointed out, just the weight of a couple of rounds on one side of the cylinder is enough to keep it from advancing. What if you had a burr on a piece of brass, dirt, or a slightly high primer causing a tiny amount of drag? The cylinder would never make it into battery. Yes, a high primer will lock up any revolver, but what we're seeing here isn't that...the trigger pulls through and the hand isn't even pushing the cylinder.

I wouldn't carry such a gun, or even shoot it. It's unsafe. Most of the time, it's not going to advance enough for the primer to align with the firing pin, so you'll just get a click (no bueno, but it's not going to hurt you). But what about the time that it lands just right so that the primer is aligned enough to detonate, but the chamber is far enough out of alignment with the barrel that it's driving the bullet into the rim of the forcing cone? I'm not sure exactly what the outcome would be (maybe shaved lead, maybe bulged chamber or cracked frame, or maybe instant hand grenade?), but I definitely wouldn't want to be the one holding it when it decides to test it!

I highly doubt that the 856 as designed is supposed to work like that...at least I certainly hope it's not. What we're seeing is more likely crummy initial QC from the factory, and incompetent maintenance by the warranty department.

That's why i suggested the model 44 or 66.
I would not carry that as well. I like Taurus guns, but only the ones that actually work.
The 856 needs a different design because there are a lot of reports of this problem all over the net, including guntube.
If he wants a Taurus get the old reliable 85.
Or a Ruger lcr or lcrx

92FSTech · Feb 26, 2024

My model 44 and 605 exhibited the same problem as the gun in this video. I don't think it's a design problem with a specific model...I think it's a quality control issue. If you got a good one it'll probably give you years of reliable service (assuming they also got the metallurgy right), but if you got a bad one you're in trouble because their service department, at least historically, was as hit-or-miss as their production side.

The gun in the video should have never left the factory like that, and it darn sure shouldn't have come back from warranty work in that condition.

gregkl · Feb 26, 2024

Dante1983 said:
I carried one of their 5 shots, 85 model I think, for years. Idk how many rounds I put through it. Never had a problem

I did also. Model 85CH. I slicked up the action and it was actually a nice revolver. I'm still sorry I sold it.

Bosshoss · Feb 26, 2024

Yes a gun should never leave the factory in that condition but to be fair I have had quite few S&W revolvers in the shop that left the factory with timing issues. Had several that went back for a fix and then came to me to fix it after S&W didn't get it right. Also the old S&W’s were even worse about timing issues when new, than the new ones.
Same thing with Ruger and have heard of the new Colts having similar problems.
This doesn't excuse it but it is not just a Taurus problem.

BTW the only correct way to shoot a DA revolver is a smooth non stop pull. :stickpoke:

DadSmith · Feb 26, 2024

92FSTech said:
My model 44 and 605 exhibited the same problem as the gun in this video. I don't think it's a design problem with a specific model...I think it's a quality control issue. If you got a good one it'll probably give you years of reliable service (assuming they also got the metallurgy right), but if you got a bad one you're in trouble because their service department, at least historically, was as hit-or-miss as their production side.

The gun in the video should have never left the factory like that, and it darn sure shouldn't have come back from warranty work in that condition.

I agree on your assessment of what is going on. I do know they slightly changed the trigger, hammer system. So I was thinking they messed it up.
The bad thing is all companies or a majority of them are using the customer's as beta testers. Then they fix whatever the beta testers find.

92FSTech · Feb 26, 2024

Bosshoss said:
Yes a gun should never leave the factory in that condition but to be fair I have had quite few S&W revolvers in the shop that left the factory with timing issues. Had several that went back for a fix and then came to me to fix it after S&W didn't get it right. Also the old S&W’s were even worse about timing issues when new, than the new ones.
Same thing with Ruger and have heard of the new Colts having similar problems.
This doesn't excuse it but it is not just a Taurus problem.

BTW the only correct way to shoot a DA revolver is a smooth non stop pull.

I'm sure you've seen a lot more than I have, but I'm 0/2 with Tauruses, 8/8 with Smiths, and 7/7 with Rugers for having revolvers I own be in time. I've also worked on a Taurus and a Rossi with timing issues for friends/family. My sample size is admittedly very limited, but you can understand my lack of confidence in the company.

DadSmith · Feb 26, 2024

92FSTech said:
I'm sure you've seen a lot more than I have, but I'm 0/2 with Tauruses, 8/8 with Smiths, and 7/7 with Rugers for having revolvers I own be in time. I've also worked on a Taurus and a Rossi with timing issues for friends/family. My sample size is admittedly very limited, but you can understand my lack of confidence in the company.

I've had to send two Rugers back out of 4.
However, Ruger customer service is excellent.

Taurus I've had no problems with any so far.
Model 44
Model 85
TX22
2x G2c don't have these anymore.
G3x

92FSTech · Feb 26, 2024

DadSmith said:
I've had to send two Rugers back out of 4.

For timing issues, or something else?

My son's Wrangler went back because it wasn't stabilizing bullets, and they replaced it. But that wasn't a timing problem. I also bought a used Smith 642 one time that had a cracked frame...but again, not a timing issue.

I definitely agree, though...any company can have problems. It's what they do to fix them that counts.

DadSmith · Feb 26, 2024

92FSTech said:
For timing issues, or something else?

Other issues.
I own Ruger rifles and handguns.
I'm planning on getting a GP100 357mag at some point.

92FSTech · Feb 26, 2024

DadSmith said:
I'm planning on getting a GP100 357mag at some point.

You won't regret that decision one bit. They are a very soft-shooting .357 Magnum, pretty easy to tune, and capable of handling a steady diet of any SAAMI-Spec load you might want to put through them. I love mine...honestly, I hate to admit it but it's probably a better gun overall than my pre-lock Model 66.

Opinions on the Taurus 856 for daily carry?

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