The Founding Fathers Would Be Ashamed At How Few American Men Still Hunt…

[Flash-hider]

You weren't trying to do it sober, were you?

I must confess, no alcohol was involved.

 

[Super Bee]

While two of my brothers love to hunt, I have just never been into it. I do not care for the taste of venison, so really not much point of me going out and sitting in the freezing cold all day for something I do not care to eat.

With that being said, I have thought about tagging along a couple times. It may come in handy to know how to properly hunt at some point.

 

[Mongo59]

I can hunt off any side of my house. Everything comes right up to me if I want to take it, but I haven't pulled the trigger for years now.

I let my family and a few friends hunt my property and I help dress it. Butchered 4 deer this last season and it is a joy to help the family and friends out.

The last time I shot an animal was about 6-7 years ago. I shot a huge tom turkey that was crapping all over my back porch. I gave it to my neighbor...

 

[bobzilla]

I've been hunting twice in my 48 years. No desire, no need. Can I? Sure if I need to. But it's not a thing I choose to do.

 

[INPatriot]

Interesting topic. The Founders were at the cutting edge of their time. The Colonies were founded on what was 15th, 16th and 17th Century globalization. They were brilliant men, the single most brilliant collection of men in history. Maybe Franklin and Jefferson could conceive 21st Century Globalization. Maybe they could not.

I believe if they saw our current circumstances, hunting would be relatively low on their list of priorities. I can guarantee, though, they would be upset with our circumstances.

They let us know as much. "...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..."

The men that wrote and signed this document had nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Reagan did more than his share of damage to the Constitution and the Second Amendment but this quote is timeless, "We're at war with the most dangerous enemy that has ever faced mankind in his long climb from the swamp to the stars, and it's been said if we lose that war, and in so doing lose this way of freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment that those who had the most to lose did the least to prevent its happening. Well I think it's time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that were intended for us by the Founding Fathers."

 

[Ingomike]

I do not think this article is about the decline of hunting, it was a case in point to a broader point, that being, in our affluence, as a society, large swaths have no connection to the earth, life, or death. They have no idea how nature works.

This makes them vulnerable to manipulation on a whole host of levels, including climate change, food production and processing, with no practical mechanical knowledge they have no way to assess regulations of appliances, automobiles, and even homes.

This isn’t about hunting, it is about knowledge that gives the power of understanding…

 

[INPatriot]

I do not think this article is about the decline of hunting, it was a case in point to a broader point, that being, in our affluence, as a society, large swaths have no connection to the earth, life, or death. They have no idea how nature works.

This makes them vulnerable to manipulation on a whole host of levels, including climate change, food production and processing, with no practical mechanical knowledge they have no way to assess regulations of appliances, automobiles, and even homes.

This isn’t about hunting, it is about knowledge that gives the power of understanding…

That is absolutely correct.

 

[wtburnette]

That I can agree with.

 

[Chewie]

You should have used your AD/A-1 on him!

Would have but there would have been to much collateral damage to the hunting grounds.

 

[Chewie]

I get what you're saying, I've encountered the same kind of idiots on public land that weren't city dwellers. I've lived in the city my entire life, but outdoors/woodsman skills aren't lost on all of us. Stupidity runs rampant regardless of where one lives

Agreed, wasn't meant to imply all city folk are idiots. This one bought an out of state hunting license and drove all the way to Tomah WI to prove his level of ....... stupidity.
Maybe he was trying to provide his credentials to the boys back in his place of residence.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I must confess, no alcohol was involved.

Ah, well there's your issue with fishing. This is not a sober man's past time, IME.

 

[Leadeye]

Lots of good points, I agree it's a time intensive pastime unless you actually live where you hunt. In Thomas Jefferson's time I would imagine more people did.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I do not think this article is about the decline of hunting, it was a case in point to a broader point, that being, in our affluence, as a society, large swaths have no connection to the earth, life, or death. They have no idea how nature works.

This makes them vulnerable to manipulation on a whole host of levels, including climate change, food production and processing, with no practical mechanical knowledge they have no way to assess regulations of appliances, automobiles, and even homes.

This isn’t about hunting, it is about knowledge that gives the power of understanding…

Science, technology, and to a large extent society, has become so exponentially more complicated that it's no longer possible to have a depth of knowledge in all of them. Hunting isn't going to instill critical thinking and analysis skills. At some point, we all have to rely on subject matter experts. To be more resistant to manipulation, a solid understanding of behavioral economics is more useful than 'knowing where your food comes from', IMO. Even then the best you can hope for is a heightened awareness of when you're being manipulated and how. If people were manipulation resistant, clickbait would not be profitable and 95%+ of the media stories would never be read.

There's always some level of romanticism with the past. The need to make some golden age that we've declined from or to make some great evil we've overcame. We can recognize the good as well as the bad, and I doubt many INGOers would want to return to James Madison's idea that only the landed should have a vote so that the rights of property owners aren't overruled by the majority nor the indentured servitude/runaway apprentice model of employment set in to law. The founding fathers were also just people, and people who didn't always agree. As appealing as Agrarian Romanticism is, and I'm quite sympathetic to it myself, it's not a realistic option for a modern nation.

 

[Ingomike]

Science, technology, and to a large extent society, has become so exponentially more complicated that it's no longer possible to have a depth of knowledge in all of them. Hunting isn't going to instill critical thinking and analysis skills. At some point, we all have to rely on subject matter experts. To be more resistant to manipulation, a solid understanding of behavioral economics is more useful than 'knowing where your food comes from', IMO. Even then the best you can hope for is a heightened awareness of when you're being manipulated and how. If people were manipulation resistant, clickbait would not be profitable and 95%+ of the media stories would never be read.

There's always some level of romanticism with the past. The need to make some golden age that we've declined from or to make some great evil we've overcame. We can recognize the good as well as the bad, and I doubt many INGOers would want to return to James Madison's idea that only the landed should have a vote so that the rights of property owners aren't overruled by the majority nor the indentured servitude/runaway apprentice model of employment set in to law. The founding fathers were also just people, and people who didn't always agree. As appealing as Agrarian Romanticism is, and I'm quite sympathetic to it myself, it's not a realistic option for a modern nation.

You quote my post but ignore what I wrote, “I do not think this article is about the decline of hunting, it was a case in point to a broader point, that being, in our affluence, as a society, large swaths have no connection to the earth, life, or death. They have no idea how nature works”.

The lack of ANY connection to life and death as well as the land is lacking in the masses today and without that foundational basis even the abstract is difficult to understand much less think beyond. A few years ago there was a big push in teaching kids in urban environments simple gardening, it was amazing the reactions of not only the kids, but their parents were learning too…

 

[Old Road Dog]

I was in the Concrete business for 45 years & back in the 70's during Deer Week our plants were Ghost Towns. The drivers, the yard people, mechanics & most of our customers went off hunting. Those that didn't hunt had a slow easy workweek. As the years went by it dwindled to virtually nothing.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You quote my post but ignore what I wrote, “I do not think this article is about the decline of hunting, it was a case in point to a broader point, that being, in our affluence, as a society, large swaths have no connection to the earth, life, or death. They have no idea how nature works”.

The lack of ANY connection to life and death as well as the land is lacking in the masses today and without that foundational basis even the abstract is difficult to understand much less think beyond. A few years ago there was a big push in teaching kids in urban environments simple gardening, it was amazing the reactions of not only the kids, but their parents were learning too…

I responded directly to your notion that: "This makes them vulnerable to manipulation on a whole host of levels, including climate change, food production and processing, with no practical mechanical knowledge they have no way to assess regulations of appliances, automobiles, and even homes."

 

[Ingomike]

I responded directly to your notion that: "This makes them vulnerable to manipulation on a whole host of levels, including climate change, food production and processing, with no practical mechanical knowledge they have no way to assess regulations of appliances, automobiles, and even homes."

You disagree with the simple notion that folks that have no clue about virtually anything are vulnerable to manipulation because they have no foundation for thinking on their own?

 

[INPatriot]

I was in the Concrete business for 45 years & back in the 70's during Deer Week our plants were Ghost Towns. The drivers, the yard people, mechanics & most of our customers went off hunting. Those that didn't hunt had a slow easy workweek. As the years went by it dwindled to virtually nothing.

I don't want to detract from Mike's thread, but your point is spot on. It's all cultural.

My family roots are in NW PA. I just crossed into my 40s. When I was growing up deer hunting was nearly religious. Opening Day, the first Monday after Thanksgiving, was an unofficial state holiday. No school and no one in the mills, foundries and tool shops.

We'd be up at 4am. My uncles, my cousins, neighbors, and guys from the church would meet at my Grandparents - 15-20 guys in all and we'd set out for the woods on foot to be in place by 5 or 5:30am. One of my uncles and his buddies would push entire blocks towards us. Once that drive was over we would head to another block and start another drive or meet up with a neighboring party. We'd head in at dark. On Opening Night, we'd go to the County Market on the town square to see the best harvests of the day. We'd do that the first week of buck and head back two weeks later for the first week of doe.

It's different now. I'm not waxing poetic and yearning for yesteryear. It's just different. My Grandpa and my remaining uncles and the guys at the church are getting old. My Dad passed away. Only one of my cousins hunts.

When I was a kid, we'd all be in the garage cutting up deer. I'm not there any more but now my Grandpa cuts up deer alone. Our biggest protein source growing up was deer. I didn't have store bought ground beef until college. Now I raise my own beef and have no need to fill the freezer.

The guys I know out here are losing their hunting ground and it sounds like public land is overwhelmed as well. I also know guys that pay a premium to head out West to hunt elk or go shoot supplemented deer that live on fenced venison farms because they just want the wall mount. The latter is not hunting, but I've got bigger fish to fry.

People do not have the free time they used to and they more to stimulate them. Now kids play multiple sports year 'round. Adults play fantasy sports, gamble on just about anything from their phones, play video games, which adults didn't do when I was young, and have all sorts of digital entertainment. None of that occupied people's time 20, 30, 40 years ago.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You disagree with the simple notion that folks that have no clue about virtually anything are vulnerable to manipulation because they have no foundation for thinking on their own?

No. I simply offered an alternative to addressing the issue that I believe is more pertinent to the level of society, technology, and social manipulation of modern times.

Basic scientific and economic illiteracy is widespread, even among intelligent people. Twice in recent time in real life conversations I've had to explain to people you can't run a generator off a car wheel except during things like downhill or braking. These were not stupid people. They were intelligent and successful in other venues of life, but had so little understanding of physics that didn't know you had to put energy in to get energy out.

 

[Leadeye]

Thermodynamics is not a flexible science, and BBI is right, it's surprising sometimes when people don't understand it.

I've always felt that if you could explain thermodynamics to socialists, they would understand why their political and social systems don't work.