A question for you Glock hands.

[Mij]

It's not a talisman?
Have you ever fired a handgun?

Nope. Have you ever tried reading the posts before adding your 2 cents?

see #21

 

[Amishman44]

Typically a 40 won’t bring as much money as a 9, and they are a harder sell. But you can work that to your advantage to buy it cheaper that way. If you don’t shoot 1000s of rounds per year the 40 is great in a full size gun like the G22 although yes it does cost a bit more to feed than 9. You do get a slightly better performing round than 9,
The big advantage that the G22 brings is that with a barrel / mag swap you can shoot 9mm, 40, and 357 Sig.

While the .40 S&W caliber has fallen out of favor with many federal, state, and local police departments, in lieu of 9mm, it's still a favorable caliber for home / personal defense as well as sport shooting.
A lot of people like to say that 9mm is 'just as good' as .40 S&W (or .45 acp) and yet a lot of departments struggled with officers who did not favor .40 S&W because the snappier recoil of the standard '+P' round was difficult for some officers to manage. Truth, many Glock .40's had difficulty with slide failure in response to recoil. In the Gen 5 models, Glock finally beefed up the slide of the Glock 22 and 23 to better withstand the recoil of the heavier caliber, which actually helps to mitigate felt-recoil a bit, IMHO, making it somewhat easier pistol to shoot.
I've found currently that ammunition supplies in .40 S&W are more readily available and actually costs less (nowadays) as compared to 9mm...supply and demand drive pricing and 9mm has increased in both whereas .40 S&W has decreased in both. I've found that I prefer 155 or 165 grain ammunition for more accurate follow up or second shots!
If you like the Glock grip, you'll be very happy with it...for those who don't like it, there's not much one can do short of come custom work to it to try to make it fit their hand better. I've done some mild work on a few grips and figured out how to make it a touch more comfortable, at least in my smaller hands, but there are limits to what can be done.
That being said, if you're comfortable carrying / shooting it, for a home / personal defense pistol, you can't go wrong with it!

 

[BigRed3588]

Would anyone be willing to give an assessment of the Glock mod. 22 in 40 S&W. I would like especially to hear about reliability, investment potential, or any negative aspects you may be aware of. And thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

The primary negative is that it’s a .40. People debate stopping power ad nauseam but the fact is there isn’t a handgun caliber that guarantees one-shot stopping power. In a self defense shooting scenario, the objective is to put as many rounds on target in the shortest amount of time possible (ideally center mass). That objective applies to every caliber, and the best self defense handgun is the one that allows you to achieve that objective. If you can do it with a larger caliber, great. But .40 in particular just doesn’t make a lot of sense. It may still outperform 9mm, but modern ammunition has closed that gap by quite a bit and those loads are still much more manageable than .40. Point being, if you’re good with .40 in terms of combat-effective shooting, you’ll be better with 9mm; enough so that it’ll offset any advantage you gain from the larger round.

FWIW, I used to contract with a Federal LEA and still train with one of their instructors who was responsible for developing and providing instruction on firearm training platforms at FLETC. Before they switched to 9mm, he had access to all the .40 Federal HST he wanted. We only ever used it to train on recoil control; every other drill was with 9mm.

 

[ECS686]

The primary negative is that it’s a .40. People debate stopping power ad nauseam but the fact is there isn’t a handgun caliber that guarantees one-shot stopping power. In a self defense shooting scenario, the objective is to put as many rounds on target in the shortest amount of time possible (ideally center mass). That objective applies to every caliber, and the best self defense handgun is the one that allows you to achieve that objective. If you can do it with a larger caliber, great. But .40 in particular just doesn’t make a lot of sense. It may still outperform 9mm, but modern ammunition has closed that gap by quite a bit and those loads are still much more manageable than .40. Point being, if you’re good with .40 in terms of combat-effective shooting, you’ll be better with 9mm; enough so that it’ll offset any advantage you gain from the larger round.

FWIW, I used to contract with a Federal LEA and still train with one of their instructors who was responsible for developing and providing instruction on firearm training platforms at FLETC. Before they switched to 9mm, he had access to all the .40 Federal HST he wanted. We only ever used it to train on recoil control; every other drill was with 9mm.

Respectfully the whole easier to shoot is BS. Yes you might have 2 tenths of a difference in split times but that doesn’t matters outside the competition realm. You can’t assess if that second or additional shots are warranted and legal that quick.

The main reason 40 fell out was cost both ammo and it is hard on most guns other than an HK USP (remember back in the early 1990’s most every company just drilled a bigger hole in a 9mm and that’s why Glock went to 3 pins and now a wider heavier slide) So it was hard on Guns as mentioned.

As far as “Center Mass” if still taught as far as LE is left over institutional inbreeding. Most are teaching Upper Thoracic and have moved their X ring to reflect that.
So hopefully your friend related that to you.

And again Respectfully. As far as FLETC That can mean a few different things. There are actual FLETC instructors then there are Agency Instructors that teach Agency stuff at FLETC. At least last time I taught there in 2017.

A lot of Agency and FLETC Heads get a lot of their stuff from national LE/Military trainers. I know your validated national level folks like Dave Spaulding and Vickers and Gunsite and such have contacts there that have been so impressed that when they took it back FLETC (or Agencies) have incorporated some things from them. I know post retirement I took 2 Dave Spaulding Classes and 2 Lee Weems classes and they were phenomenal Instructors and were as good if not better than many lead FLETC instructors I had worked with.

 

[Trapper Jim]

Other than the hate you'll get from the 1911 crowd...

Full disclosure, not a .40 S&W guy. Have a G19 and EDC is a G26 (both Gen 3). G22 is the same frame as the G17 (9mm) full-size with 4.5" barrel.

Even @churchmouse who really hates Glocks will admit, they are reliable.

Define reliable. Fact is polymer service pistols enjoy tolerances of an Amazon warehouse and are as loose as a streetwalker and yet they do have stoppages.

 

[VERT]

It's not a talisman?
Have you ever fired a handgun?

Na, don’t need anything. Just curiosity got hold of me. I’m a old school revolver kinda guy. Only auto I shoot much is my old 1911. I shoot my belly gun .380 enough to stay in touch with it. I burn up most of my ammo 6 rounds at a time.

Tyler, the answer to your question is YES and NO. Yes Handguns are a talisman and while the OP has fired a handgun NO he does not know how to actually shoot one. 3 identical Glocks with a total of 9 magazines and 1000 rounds of ammo were purchased because the hildabeast was ahead in the polls as an investment.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Define reliable. Fact is polymer service pistols enjoy tolerances of an Amazon warehouse and are as loose as a streetwalker and yet they do have stoppages.

Every machine fails. Especially machines that are poorly maintained, poorly used, altered by amateurs and/or idiots, etc. Add in cheapest is bestest ammo selection and you can choke any gun.

With rare exception, the idea that the common polymer duty guns and spin-offs are reliable in stock configuration with quality ammuntion and while properly lubed is beyond intelligent debate. As are many non-polymer guns.

 

[BigRed3588]

Respectfully the whole easier to shoot is BS. Yes you might have 2 tenths of a difference in split times but that doesn’t matters outside the competition realm. You can’t assess if that second or additional shots are warranted and legal that quick.

The main reason 40 fell out was cost both ammo and it is hard on most guns other than an HK USP (remember back in the early 1990’s most every company just drilled a bigger hole in a 9mm and that’s why Glock went to 3 pins and now a wider heavier slide) So it was hard on Guns as mentioned.

As far as “Center Mass” if still taught as far as LE is left over institutional inbreeding. Most are teaching Upper Thoracic and have moved their X ring to reflect that.
So hopefully your friend related that to you.

And again Respectfully. As far as FLETC That can mean a few different things. There are actual FLETC instructors then there are Agency Instructors that teach Agency stuff at FLETC. At least last time I taught there in 2017.

A lot of Agency and FLETC Heads get a lot of their stuff from national LE/Military trainers. I know your validated national level folks like Dave Spaulding and Vickers and Gunsite and such have contacts there that have been so impressed that when they took it back FLETC (or Agencies) have incorporated some things from them. I know post retirement I took 2 Dave Spaulding Classes and 2 Lee Weems classes and they were phenomenal Instructors and were as good if not better than many lead FLETC instructors I had worked with.

Respectfully the whole easier to shoot is BS. Yes you might have 2 tenths of a difference in split times but that doesn’t matters outside the competition realm. You can’t assess if that second or additional shots are warranted and legal that quick.

The main reason 40 fell out was cost both ammo and it is hard on most guns other than an HK USP (remember back in the early 1990’s most every company just drilled a bigger hole in a 9mm and that’s why Glock went to 3 pins and now a wider heavier slide) So it was hard on Guns as mentioned.

As far as “Center Mass” if still taught as far as LE is left over institutional inbreeding. Most are teaching Upper Thoracic and have moved their X ring to reflect that.
So hopefully your friend related that to you.

And again Respectfully. As far as FLETC That can mean a few different things. There are actual FLETC instructors then there are Agency Instructors that teach Agency stuff at FLETC. At least last time I taught there in 2017.

A lot of Agency and FLETC Heads get a lot of their stuff from national LE/Military trainers. I know your validated national level folks like Dave Spaulding and Vickers and Gunsite and such have contacts there that have been so impressed that when they took it back FLETC (or Agencies) have incorporated some things from them. I know post retirement I took 2 Dave Spaulding Classes and 2 Lee Weems classes and they were phenomenal Instructors and were as good if not better than many lead FLETC instructors I had worked with.

The attached photo shows the target used by DHS for quarterly qualifications. The course of fire can be found online if you care to look. As you can see, center mass is still taught.

The instructor was an actual FLETC instructor. He had to draft and videotape each course of fire, which he had archived. A current ICE SRT Tactical Supervisor worked with him at FLETC and was also based out of the Miami field office at the time I worked there. Up until his retirement last year, he was still acting as an instructor for ICE SRT teams in south Florida (I had the opportunity to shoot one of their courses of fire with the M4 designed around urban combat. They had brought in vehicles from a junk yard and set up a number of barriers to simulate the environment. It was pretty cool).

I’m sure he probably did pull ideas from a number of places. He joined the Army out of HS and served in one of the Airborne divisions for 8 years before joining the agency. If you taught at FLETC, I’m sure you’re aware of how frequently agents rotate in/out of assignments so I don’t recall everything he did. I do know he worked for CBP in both the Air and Marine Interdiction units before his 3-year stint as an Air Marshal. I believe he went from that post to FLETC. Point being, he probably picked up a few things along the way that he incorporated into his training platforms.

I’m not going to act like I’m an authority on firearms training, because I’m not. I was just relaying information passed on to me from a guy that I do consider to be an authority. He worked for the federal government from the time he was 18 to the day he hit mandatory retirement. A large portion of that time was dedicated to firearms training, and he did have to apply it in the field. Take it for what you will.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Mij
You asked simple questions, you got a lot of answers.
Reliability thousands of Law Enforcement officers have and do use Glock.40 pistols.
Value, what’s your life worth?
Your family?
Your property?
There are many pistols to choose from, many a manufacture.
I carry one, a Glock-23, and a Glock-27.
I have never regretted that decision since getting and using them at the Sheriffs academy in the mid 90’s.
Most people can handle them, but today the tide has shifted back to the wonder 9’s.
I am glad you have received a lot of info.
I wouldn’t hesitate to carry and use a Glock-22 or most any other Glock.

 

[ECS686]

The attached photo shows the target used by DHS for quarterly qualifications. The course of fire can be found online if you care to look. As you can see, center mass is still taught.

The instructor was an actual FLETC instructor. He had to draft and videotape each course of fire, which he had archived. A current ICE SRT Tactical Supervisor worked with him at FLETC and was also based out of the Miami field office at the time I worked there. Up until his retirement last year, he was still acting as an instructor for ICE SRT teams in south Florida (I had the opportunity to shoot one of their courses of fire with the M4 designed around urban combat. They had brought in vehicles from a junk yard and set up a number of barriers to simulate the environment. It was pretty cool).

I’m sure he probably did pull ideas from a number of places. He joined the Army out of HS and served in one of the Airborne divisions for 8 years before joining the agency. If you taught at FLETC, I’m sure you’re aware of how frequently agents rotate in/out of assignments so I don’t recall everything he did. I do know he worked for CBP in both the Air and Marine Interdiction units before his 3-year stint as an Air Marshal. I believe he went from that post to FLETC. Point being, he probably picked up a few things along the way that he incorporated into his training platforms.

I’m not going to act like I’m an authority on firearms training, because I’m not. I was just relaying information passed on to me from a guy that I do consider to be an authority. He worked for the federal government from the time he was 18 to the day he hit mandatory retirement. A large portion of that time was dedicated to firearms training, and he did have to apply it in the field. Take it for what you will.

Why I said respectfully. And I didn’t mean anything against your friend. The center Mass comment got me. While I get it some agencies still have the “qual” target which is just a test nothing more usually cover or do supplemental training where the upper thoracic is driven him to target.

FLETC at Glynco is a big place with over 100 agencies training there (Customs is one of the largest even without the BP now since other than advanced they use Artesia or Charleston) which means there are 200 ways of difference

I was just relaying that a lot of agencies are going to the upper thoracic as scoring to acclimate troops to aim for that because that’s what stops perps.

Agencies are sometimes their own worst enemy on changes for better more current ways to do stuff firearms wise (as far as general issue not SORT, SRT or etc as they get better training and latitude) that whole 10/80/10 breakdown I guess.



Now back on topic a Glock 40 is just fine if that’s what the OP has. Been dropping a lot of bad guys since 1990.

 

[Mij]

Thanks to all for there insightful answers and the time and effort. For a bit of background, I got the hi-caps because I could. And I thought if billery became pres. l couldn’t. I unlike some, know that money in the bank is a slow downward spiral. As I’ve said in other threads firearms, land, pm‘s, livestock, are things with intrinsic value. And I don’t gamble so the stock market is out. Other than my govt. administrated 457 b (i think) I avoid it like the plague.

Now, I do shoot a couple auto loaders. Not much or many, mostly my old Colts 1911 and my constant carry belly gun a Ruger .380, about 1000 +/- rnds. per year. Combined. On the other hand when I go to the city I carry a revolver, always a S&W. 5 shot J frame in my small farm town, K frame in the city with a speed loader. Both, all, in Galco leather OWB, speed draw. The revolvers while I’m no Miculek I do shoot a lot. ~100 to 200 rnds. Daily. About 300 days a year, rain or shine, hot or cold, day or night. I’m 70+ yrs old and quite set in my ways. I did qualify expert with the 1911 but that was in 68. And I had a DI that I could live with. In my hey day autos were not that accurate and if you didn’t shoot a k-38 masterpiece you didn’t know squat about accuracy. Obviously things and times have changed. Still to this day I never point my sidearm or any gun anywhere but down range, it was instilled (smacked) into me it is ingrained into my mind. My home range is a standing bench next to a sitting rifle bench. Under a sheet metal roof. Metal hanging or standing targets. From 7 yards to 300 yards. Some rim fire store bought some home made square 3/8th’s boiler plate, 4 in. 12 in. 14 in. Lots of friends come to sight in hunting guns and some to shoot for practice. If I don’t know you, I’m sorry. Screw up’s are and have been shown to their truck.

This is going to say more than I’ve said before but I farm close enough to wildcat club to hear the fire on the range. Not saying that’s where I live just farm some ground, lots of cash rent ground there. Those that know, know. Those that don’t well……..OK, hope this clears up the meaning behind my original question and gives some insight into me as a shooter and my qualifications to carry a sidearm.

By the by, I read the whole post about range officer’s and there observations of the general public, it gives me pause to think about the upcoming change in Indiana law. Thanks to all that posted in that thread. Alright going to finish mowing, got a little road side left to do.

 

[Amishman44]

Now, I do shoot a couple auto loaders. Not much or many, mostly my old Colts 1911 and my constant carry belly gun a Ruger .380, about 1000 +/- rnds. per year. Combined. On the other hand when I go to the city I carry a revolver, always a S&W. 5 shot J frame in my small farm town, K frame in the city with a speed loader. Both, all, in Galco leather OWB, speed draw. The revolvers while I’m no Miculek I do shoot a lot. ~100 to 200 rnds. Daily. About 300 days a year, rain or shine, hot or cold, day or night. I’m 70+ yrs old and quite set in my ways. I did qualify expert with the 1911 but that was in 68. And I had a DI that I could live with. In my hey day autos were not that accurate and if you didn’t shoot a k-38 masterpiece you didn’t know squat about accuracy. Obviously things and times have changed. Still to this day I never point my sidearm or any gun anywhere but down range, it was instilled (smacked) into me it is ingrained into my mind. My home range is a standing bench next to a sitting rifle bench. Under a sheet metal roof. Metal hanging or standing targets. From 7 yards to 300 yards. Some rim fire store bought some home made square 3/8th’s boiler plate, 4 in. 12 in. 14 in. Lots of friends come to sight in hunting guns and some to shoot for practice. If I don’t know you, I’m sorry. Screw up’s are and have been shown to their truck.

I, too, favor a revolver over a semi-auto, for general handgun uses. I have a S&W 360J in .357 magnum (I definitely prefer 110 grain Corbon's in it for the milder felt recoil) but in my 3" Ruger GP100 .357 magnum, I prefer 158 grain JSP or 170 grain hard-cast in it...it's wonderfully accurate and it handles the felt recoil from the heavier loads quite well! Here it is, in it's pre-upgrade days!

 

[Mij]

First class firearm in my opinion, got to love that 3 in. bbl. I put a red dot on a security six. I’ve taken 3 deer with it cor bons at ~ 45 to 50 yards. They don’t run 50 yards after the hit.

I’m sure they will both ( yours and mine) be shooting fine in another 50 years given proper care. Maybe 100.

 

[edporch]

Would anyone be willing to give an assessment of the Glock mod. 22 in 40 S&W. I would like especially to hear about reliability, investment potential, or any negative aspects you may be aware of. And thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

Glocks strong point is they are generally reliable.
I have more faith in .40SW than I do a 9mm.
You can swap the Model 22 barrel with a Model 31 barrel to shoot .357 Sig, a great round (and no, a 9mm +p+ is not equivalent to it ).
As an investment, a Glock isn't a pistol to buy as an investment.
The BIG downside to me about Glocks is for me they are not a good match with my hand, and the grip angle doesn't work for me.

 

[Creedmoor]

Define reliable. Fact is polymer service pistols enjoy tolerances of an Amazon warehouse and are as loose as a streetwalker and yet they do have stoppages.

So they copied a 100+ years of USGI 1911's, because those loose goose's never have stoppages.

 

[Trapper Jim]

So they copied a 100+ years of USGI 1911's, because those loose goose's never have stoppages.

I do not find one less reliable than the other. What I do believe however is that the SSP is easier to teach the masses on how to spray lead. The 1911 however, is a platform that requires discipline, determination, commitment, and mucho practice to master. No doubt the reason for its decline.

 

[ECS686]

I do not find one less reliable than the other. What I do believe however is that the SSP is easier to teach the masses on how to spray lead. The 1911 however, is a platform that requires discipline, determination, commitment, and mucho practice to master. No doubt the reason for its decline.

The biggest thing that make Glocks choke is aftermarket parts, YouTube armorer attempts or bad handloads.

Where Glocks (and other strikers) beat out 1911’s as far as afency guns is less parts and waivers in long term.
With under 49 parts and most last a long time and if required to be changed is a simple drop in. 1911’s you aren’t dropping in an extractor and expecting it to work 100% without tuning it.

And factor in you have to lube a 1911 to get through a 2 day 1,000 round class a lot more than a Glock (or most any Stryker)

Don’t get me wrong I have and carry 1911’s at times and they can be great guns. but they are not for everyone especially ones that only do once a year agency mandated qualification

A Glock is like a revolver as you can leave it in a drawer for 6 years and it’s easy for a homeowner that isn’t into shooting to have something they can use.

 

[bwframe]

My only Glock investments in the modern day would be MOS version Gen 5's in 9mm.

Whether you use the MOS or not is irrelevant. You want the option for yourself and for the resale value. Gen 5 has all the current modern features you want and has been out long enough to be well proven. Gen 5's are also backward compatible with important stuff like holsters, magazines, etc.

No disrespect, but I think you'd be throwing away money on a Glock in .40.

 

[Jaybird1980]

The biggest thing that make Glocks choke is aftermarket parts, YouTube armorer attempts or bad handloads.

Where Glocks (and other strikers) beat out 1911’s as far as afency guns is less parts and waivers in long term.
With under 49 parts and most last a long time and if required to be changed is a simple drop in. 1911’s you aren’t dropping in an extractor and expecting it to work 100% without tuning it.

And factor in you have to lube a 1911 to get through a 2 day 1,000 round class a lot more than a Glock (or most any Stryker)

Don’t get me wrong I have and carry 1911’s at times and they can be great guns. but they are not for everyone especially ones that only do once a year agency mandated qualification

A Glock is like a revolver as you can leave it in a drawer for 6 years and it’s easy for a homeowner that isn’t into shooting to have something they can use.

This is what got me to go to the Glock route for competition. I could carry a few extra parts and a couple tools in the bag and there was a good chance I could get it back running with little work. The simplicity is a plus in this case. I don't really like the 1911 to Glock (or Glock type) comparisons, they're 2 different styles of guns. You can like both for different reasons, doesn't have to be one is better than the other.

 

[STEEL CORE]

ESC686
You mentioned
FLETC
I was just there in May, we got to stay on Jekyll Island.