What is your threshold?

[obijohn]

I would need to be in the "moment" to make a decision. Sure we can all give examples and quote our personal mantra on what we would do, but every situation is different.

For me there are no set guidelines, other than staying within the law, as I will do what I must to prevail. If that involves running like a schoolgirl or placing a shot in the "triangle of death", then thats what I would do.

well said,big craig.

 

[Yamaha]

I've thought about this many times. I know what it would be once I'm an officer, any credible threat against my own or someone else's life. I also feel thats already the case as a ccw holder. If my gun is drawn, they better listen to commands, if they do something stupid like reach or go to charge, the threat will not stop receiving lead until said threat is neutralized. I carry 35 rounds with me always, so thats a lot of neutralizing.

Andrew

 

[Ri22o]

We all know Feign's threshold, and it involves the 'dongers' at WalMart.

 

[Fenway]

a lot of neutralizing is right. :do2:

I carry 35 rounds with me always, so thats a lot of neutralizing.

Andrew

 

[Yamaha]

a lot of neutralizing is right. :do2:

yea, considering the grouping I put down at 40yds at popguns, I might be able to safely travel through ft. wayne.....

no wait, I need a pair of g17C's, 8 33rd mags, and converted to full auto for that......
Andrew

 

[Fenway]

Sounds like you might be able to face off against a former member here. He goes by "Mr. Glock" on youtube and he competes in "1 and done" competitions.

yea, considering the grouping I put down at 40yds at popguns, I might be able to safely travel through ft. wayne.....

 

[Lars]

I'm pretty sure pops is 40 feet, not yards.

Fort Wayne can't be worse than Gary can it?

 

[GetA2J]

I was just in a situation where I had to consider this very question.
I was driving north on 41 in Terre Haute. There was an SUV in front of me driving slow in the left lane. I had just got around a fogger (read: diesel truck that likes to leave a big black cloud at every green light) and I didn’t want him to pass me. I found a break in traffic on my right, so I passed the slowpoke.
He got so mad he was shaking his fists at me and waving his arms in anger. I found this somewhat comical and I started clapping my hands (mocking him). At the next traffic light he actually got out of his SUV and came to my minivan and started beating on my driver’s window cussing and asking me if I thought it was funny. I told him YES I thought he was funny and that he should turn around and get back in his car.
All this commotion while my wife and one of her daycare kids were in my car. Because of my little passenger (we had just picked her up at her mother’s request) I did NOT want a violent confrontation, so I left my 1911 holstered. The light turned green and I drove on. In the next few blocks I recognized that the fogger (now next to me) and the hummer (in front of me) were all buddies of Mr. angry man. I took an opportunity to leave the (rocking chair) I found myself in just a couple of blocks later at an intersection.
In retrospect I have asked myself “did I feel threatened?” as a matter of fact I did but because he had on a pink tuxedo vest (I presume it was prom night) and because of my precious cargo I avoided confrontation. I also asked myself “If I were alone would I have handled it differently?” I must say that I err on the side of caution in most circumstances.
“If he had broken my window would I have reacted differently?” now there is a very difficult question. IF he had broken my window I may very well would have gotten out of my vehicle and things might have ended VERY different!

 

[BloodEclipse]

I was just in a situation where I had to consider this very question.

He got so mad he was shaking his fists at me and waving his arms in anger. I found this somewhat comical and I started clapping my hands (mocking him).

This could be considered provoking and or participating and that eliminates your claim for self defense if I read the law correctly.

 

[GetA2J]

If that is the case then if I stick my tongue out at someone or flipp them off they are justified in attacking me????
I'm not buying into that mythology.

 

[BloodEclipse]

If that is the case then if I stick my tongue out at someone or flipp them off they are justified in attacking me????
I'm not buying into that mythology.

I'm just saying you should know the law well before you cross a line that gets you in trouble. If you don't have a copy of Indiana Handgun Law I suggest you get a copy and read it throughly. Page 104 is where I read what I think is a good example of how you would have been charged if you would have used a gun...... even if your window had been broken.
This forum is a great place to learn and if someone knows my interpretation to be wrong they will let me know. Its not an attack on anybody to help point out things that might help them out or save them some serious grief.

 

[GetA2J]

Thank you B.E.
I have a copy and have picked it up to read several times. Correction: I have picked it up for research several times.
There is a little discussed facet of firearm ownership / personal protection. That of: "What happens AFTER the confrontation?"
I still don't agree with the "provocation" you spoke about. That could be interpreted in countless forms and from countless activities.
Much like slamming on one's brakes to avert a tailgater. CAN the tailgater PROVE that the leader slammed on his brakes? or does the front man simply claim a small animal ran out in front?
Whomever has the better attorney wins!!!!!!

 

[BloodEclipse]

Well as we have said before, if an event happens we say " I felt threatened and I need a lawyer"
What it all comes down to I think is in front of a jury will they feel the way someone behaved was what a reasonable person would have done.

 

[SavageEagle]

It's hard to say without a specific situation what I would do. If I'm in my home and the kids are upstairs asleep with everyone else, I'd be headed that way, throwing anything I can down the stair to act as a blockade, grab my smoke bomb and use it, all the while screaming for my fiance to call the police. If and when they try to advance up the stairs they would encounter a warning shot. After which, if they don't stop, they would encounter the real thing.

Out in a public situation, like others have said, I won't pull my gun unless I intend to fire. and I train to fire-to-kill. I suppose I would draw my weapon if the situation would then calm down. Like say someone is threatening my family or another family/person with a weapon. If they cease to be a threat, I would re-holster and I'm sure the police would be well on their way by that point. I'm a small guy so only if I felt in grave danger would I draw. But I also feel that most situations can be talked out of. Diplomacy is the best policy. Only if diplomacy fails should you react with force. And Force should be met with Force.

I haven't had any formal force-on-force training but I plan on it when I can afford it. Although studying military tactics is a hobby of mine, nothing can replace formal training. Also, legal logistics are always in the back of my mind.

 

[Shay]

If and when they try to advance up the stairs they would encounter a warning shot. After which, if they don't stop, they would encounter the real thing.

I would strongly advise against warning shots.

Firing warning shots shows that you are not serious about the use of lethal force, it wastes one or more rounds that you might need later, possibly reduces your hearing and those bullet will travel somewhere to strike something that isn't the bad guy.

 

[bwframe]

I would strongly advise against warning shots.

Firing warning shots shows that you are not serious about the use of lethal force, it wastes one or more rounds that you might need later, possibly reduces your hearing and those bullet will travel somewhere to strike something that isn't the bad guy.

What about the smoke bomb? Is that a good idea?

 

[SavageEagle]

Firing warning shots shows that you are not serious about the use of lethal force, it wastes one or more rounds that you might need later, possibly reduces your hearing and those bullet will travel somewhere to strike something that isn't the bad guy.

Although that might be your IYHO, IMHO a warning shot shows that I'm serious and if you keep coming that hole in the wall will be a hole in you. As it's been stated before in other threads, should I need more than 5-6 shots I'm in trouble anyway. Which is why I keep two loaded clips of 14 apiece. As far as the bullet hitting something critical or SOMEONE else i don't intend, That's just not a possibility where I would be postitioned and everything else in the house sits. The worst thing I could hit would be our refrigerator or kitchen sink/water purifier. It's all in the way the house is set up.

As far as the smoke bomb, its just a deturrent against coming up the stairs since they will know I'm armed by me stating very clearly and the fact that most people wouldn't walk into a gunfight if the room is filled with smoke. I have many options being upstairs as I have other rooms to retreat to and have the advantage of knowing where they are by the sounds they make in my own home.

 

[Shay]

What about the smoke bomb? Is that a good idea?

Probably not but SE gets to make his own choices. All I see it as is a waste of energy and a potential fire hazard.

 

[Shay]

Although that might be your IYHO, IMHO a warning shot shows that I'm serious and if you keep coming that hole in the wall will be a hole in you. As it's been stated before in other threads, should I need more than 5-6 shots I'm in trouble anyway. Which is why I keep two loaded clips of 14 apiece. As far as the bullet hitting something critical or SOMEONE else i don't intend, That's just not a possibility where I would be postitioned and everything else in the house sits. The worst thing I could hit would be our refrigerator or kitchen sink/water purifier. It's all in the way the house is set up.

As far as the smoke bomb, its just a deturrent against coming up the stairs since they will know I'm armed by me stating very clearly and the fact that most people wouldn't walk into a gunfight if the room is filled with smoke. I have many options being upstairs as I have other rooms to retreat to and have the advantage of knowing where they are by the sounds they make in my own home.

You've obviously done a lot of thinking about this so all I can tell you is that I hope your plan holds up to the stress of someone trying to kill you. I don't mean that sarcastically.

 

[bwframe]

Probably not but SE gets to make his own choices. All I see it as is a waste of energy and a potential fire hazard.

Thanks Shay. Your professional advice is always appreciated!